GM concerned about overly focused character Options

[kjones]

I'll be starting up Ghost Cartels soon, and my players are in the process of running their characters by me before the first session. One of them is playing an ork phys ad - so far, so good.

My concern is that he is just a one-trick pony, and not a very useful one at that. He put ~320 BP into his stats (including Edge 5 and Magic 6) and took:

• Unarmed Combat 6
• Dodge 4
• Pistols 2
• Perception 2
• Athletics SG 1

and that's it. His adept powers are:

• Critical Strike 3
• Improved Reflexes 2
• Penetrating Strike 3
• Mystic Armor 2
• Combat Sense 2

For gear, he took an armored jacket, an Ares Predator, a commlink, and nothing else.

My concern is twofold. First of all, this is a pretty one-dimensional build, and seeing as this player's last character was (sigh) a sociopathic street samurai, I'm concerned that he's not really interested in deeply developing a character. Second of all, a character who can only do unarmed melee combat, and nothing else, will probably be bored whenever the situation doesn't call for that. I suppose you could say the same thing about a dedicated hacker, or any other one-trick pony, but I wouldn't be crazy about those kinds of characters either, and I think a dedicated hacker is less likely to get himself killed. Let's face it, melee combat is almost always less useful than ranged combat, and a lot more dangerous to boot.

Should I talk to the player now, and tell him that I think he won't have much fun with his character? Or should I let him figure that out on his own?

[Doc Chase]

Talk to him now. He's not going to enjoy Ghost Cartels with a character like that.

[Yerameyahu]

Talk to him first. Tell him it's not approved, try again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It doesn't have to be Hamlet, it just has to be playable.

Side note: a dedicated hacker is very versatile, because hacking is versatile.

And tell him not to hard-max anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Doc Chase]

Uh...Wouldn't the specials only add up to what, 105 at most? I think he may b eover his attribute cap.

[Neraph]

Magic cap 65, Edge cap 65. That's 130 at most. If 200 are spent in stats, that's 330 max.

EDIT: Looking at the 320 points again, maybe that's including racial cost?

[Doc Chase]

Yeah, but he didn't cap Edge. So he spent, what, 105? 40 for the Edge, 65 for the magic?

Edit: Ah, I see what I said. Yeah, the cap is 330, he spent 320, but he only spent 105 on specials, leaving 215.

What I said was:

What's the maximum special BP cap?

What I meant was:

How much did he spend there?

I am so tired. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

2nd edit: Could be. I wanna see what the stats are now, since there isn't much else to the character, amirite? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[kjones]

Full stats are:

• Bod 6
• Agi 5
• Rea 4
• Str 7
• Cha 2
• Int 3
• Log 2
• Wil 3
• Edge 5
• Magic 6

As I count, that comes out to 315 for an ork.

[Neraph]

Orks are 20. 105 for special attributes. He's got 5 points floating somewhere that's unaccounted for. Did he cap another attribute?

25 for capping 1 attribute.
170 for other stats.
65 for Magic
40 for edge
20 for Ork.

320.

EDIT: oh, that "~" was throwing us off.

But yeah, talk to him and tell him that a purely "punch things" character in an adventure that has talking and legwork (and guns) won't be fun.

[Critias]

Remind him that even Eliot from Leverage has to fill in for someone else or help out the rest of the team with something besides ass-kicking, every now and then. Reassure him that even with a few points spent elsewhere his character will still be a brawling badass, and make some suggestions about how/where he could spend the points to round out his character a little.

[Doc Chase]

That solves the mystery.

I just...There's something about this character that just shouts 'wrongbad' to me. Sure, a start like this will make a fantastic generalist later since it's cheaper to boost skills, but you have to survive to get the karma and I'm not sure he'd make it far past the gang-bangers.

[kjones]

Remind him that even Eliot from Leverage has to fill in for someone else or help out the rest of the team with something besides ass-kicking, every now and then. Reassure him that even with a few points spent elsewhere his character will still be a brawling badass, and make some suggestions about how/where he could spend the points to round out his character a little.

This is exactly what I did, sans the Leverage reference because I know he wouldn't get it. Honestly, if he put a couple of points into Infiltration, he'd be a much better character - having somebody who can sneak in without tripping the MAD scanners is often handy. Or Disguise, so he can pose as the janitor and bust out his kung fu when they least expect it. Or... or anything! Anything at all!

I just...There's something about this character that just shouts 'wrongbad' to me. Sure, a start like this will make a fantastic generalist later since it's cheaper to boost skills, but you have to survive to get the karma and I'm not sure he'd make it far past the gang-bangers.

This isn't the kind of player who thinks about stuff like where he's going to spend karma in advance.

[Yerameyahu]

Planning to generalize later is nearly cheating anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hehe.

[Cain]

I wouldn't worry about a sociopathic character personality. Ghost Cartels lends itself to amoral shadowrunners, instead of the Robin Hood type.

[kjones]

I wouldn't worry about a sociopathic character personality. Ghost Cartels lends itself to amoral shadowrunners, instead of the Robin Hood type.

Sociopathy is not a problem in and of itself, but the character was completely one-dimensional. His reaction to everything was generally "Don't fuck with me." This caused no end of trouble with Johnsons and the like, to the extent that the player was probably more of a liability to the group than an asset - I think some of them wanted to stop running with him, but we're former D&D players and in D&D, you don't split the party.

But really, the character was just kind of a jerk, and I don't think anyone had fun role-playing interactions with him.

My game will be working a little differently, though - the team is deep undercover for Lone Star, trying to trace tempo back to the source.

[suoq]

Are you going to enjoy GMing this campaign with this character? Sounds like No.

Are the other players going to enjoy this campaign with their characters having to play with his character? Sounds like No.

All of you have to tell him this. All of you.

And if he gets with the program, congratulations. If not, well, you told him.

Eventually one of three things will happen.

1) He'll get with the program.
2) He'll get kicked to the curb.
3) Your group will just quit playing.

Best of luck.

[Yerameyahu]

Perennial problem of roleplaying: other people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mooncrow]

Perennial problem of roleplaying: other people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Just go log into World of Warcraft for a bit, sit in the Barrens or tradechat for a few hours - then come back to your tabletop group knowing that you play with a bunch of wonderful human beings that you love and cherish (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Voran]

Its like that old adage about the toolkit, if the only tool you have in your toolbox is a penis then you'll want to...wait...wait...no that's not right.

Seriously though, I'm all for having characters that can survive in combat, even thrive in it, but it should also come with theunderstanding that even if you're not the primary social character, the game isn't 24-7 combat, so there's going to be a lot of time you won't be able to do much, unless you've got the skills to contribute. You'll be sitting at the table reading Arsenal or something while the rest of the group is doing legwork and interactions, cause with low social/mental skills, you can't really contribute that much even if using the teamwork rule. Heck, you might make things worse.

[Neraph]

Ask him questions. Such as:

1) People are on a balcony and they're shooting at you. What do you do?

2) There's a guard at the front gate and you know his biomonitor is hooked up to the security system. How do you get past him?

3) You need to get a taxi. How do you purchase a ride without a SIN?

4) There are flying drones shooting at you.

5) You need to deal subdual damage. Unless he has Killing Hands, he's got a problem.

EDIT: Hopefully having him think about these questions will cause him to take another look at his character.

Forgot to close the concept. I should get some sleep.

[Cain]

Sociopathy is not a problem in and of itself, but the character was completely one-dimensional. His reaction to everything was generally "Don't fuck with me." This caused no end of trouble with Johnsons and the like, to the extent that the player was probably more of a liability to the group than an asset - I think some of them wanted to stop running with him, but we're former D&D players and in D&D, you don't split the party.

But really, the character was just kind of a jerk, and I don't think anyone had fun role-playing interactions with him.

My game will be working a little differently, though - the team is deep undercover for Lone Star, trying to trace tempo back to the source.

Even then, it sounds like more a roleplaying skill deficit than a character personality problem.

One dimensional characters can be a lot of fun, in the hands of the right player. We've all got stories about Uncouth Trolls that try and negotiate their way past a Johnson, and fail humorously. If he's not actively causing a problem, and his character is skilled enough to earn a place on the team, I'd just ignore it until it becomes a real problem. He just needs to learn roleplay skills, and that he'll get from watching an excellent gaming group in action. If none of the other PC's want to talk with him, that's fine-- eventually, the player will see what he's missing and come around.

Are you going to enjoy GMing this campaign with this character? Sounds like No.

Are the other players going to enjoy this campaign with their characters having to play with his character? Sounds like No.

All of you have to tell him this. All of you.

And if he gets with the program, congratulations. If not, well, you told him.

Eventually one of three things will happen.

1) He'll get with the program.
2) He'll get kicked to the curb.
3) Your group will just quit playing.

Best of luck.

Is this guy causing active problems: Sounds like No.

Is this guy going to cause active problems for the other players: Sounds like No.

I don't believe in forcing players to magically develop skills they don't have is a smart decision. A lot of us game with friends, and that's a good way to start losing friends.

[Fauxknight]

My problem is that for being a one dimensional character, hes not even very good. He could easily be overshadowed by another adept or a street sam who has both versatility and is at least as good at unarmed combat as he is. Dude totally needs some min/maxing lessons.

[Hedrik]

Everytime I see such a char, I talk to my player telling him my concerns and if he still wants to play it, I'll let him. He'll just has to live (or die) with the consequences.

[Makki]

if he's the worlds leading unarmed combat fighter, why would he work for LS? why would LS hire someone unable to teamplay or intimidate? why would LS hire someone for an undercover job without Disguise and Infiltration skills? your player will have to give you really detailed and concluding answers...

furthermore, we did'nt really have many fighting scenes in our GC sessions. you may tell him, to not come or not bring his character to about half your sessions, 'cause he won't be usefull or needed

[Doc Chase]

Were it my character?

He was picked up by LS on the underground fighting circuit in an illegal bout. He was down on his luck, had maybe two electrons to rub together, and they made him an offer.

He'd be the undercover team's enforcer, and decoy. They'd give him a direction, some supplies confiscated off other mooks and he could keep what they were paid by the Cartels when it came to it. He provides enough cred to the team that they'd be in for sure - what kind of law enforcement outfit would hire this guy in the first place?

Make a show of dropping him off after beating the crap out of him (because he's SINless, that's what happens) and people won't question a lack of a criminal SIN.

[suoq]

Is this guy causing active problems: Sounds like No.

Is this guy going to cause active problems for the other players: Sounds like No.

I think some of them wanted to stop running with him, but we're former D&D players and in D&D, you don't split the party.

But really, the character was just kind of a jerk, and I don't think anyone had fun role-playing interactions with him.