GM concerned about overly focused character Options

[Doc Chase]

Emphasis on think.

It's not what you do, it's what you can prove!

[suoq]

Emphasis on think.

It's not what you do, it's what you can prove!

I may be off here, but I think the goal is to reduce the situation before proof (such as people quitting) actually happens.

If my child thinks he needs to go to the bathroom, I don't want him to prove it. Thinking is good enough for me.

^ The above is meant as silliness. I know, I know, Dumpsock is serious business. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ^

[Doc Chase]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That pressure in his gut is all the proof I ever need.

In this case, I'd just want to make sure of it, especially as if it's a group of pals then someone's going to get ticked off. Had that happen in my game recently, which is why I'm back on the GM wagon and off the player one for a while.

[Kruger]

furthermore, we did'nt really have many fighting scenes in our GC sessions. you may tell him, to not come or not bring his character to about half your sessions, 'cause he won't be usefull or needed

Unfortunately, players who make characters like that find a way, or create a way, to be needed far too often.

[tete]

Have him a. answer the 20 questions in RC for 20 karma that he can spend (offer this option to everyone) or b. pick a main movie character and build that you can then point out that characters non-combat skills or c. move to karma build.

Really though if everyone got 20 karma to round out their character you'll get some more diversity.

[jakephillips]

Yea I never seem to have much luck talking a character out of playing something that is really optimized.
This time we all made characters together and put up a checklist up on the white board everyone needs to sneak, shoot, have etiquette so you can blend in, climb a fence, swim, so athletics, and be able to drive something, and defend yourself in hand to hand and a fake sin. Not huge skill ratings just be able to be passable.

I ended up with an ork hacker who is an adept who was super optimized not to die... 5 levels of combat sense yes that is 2.5 magic points and two levels of mystic armor for one more point, extra inititave passes nooooo that would be silly, a few extra hacking dice yes.
Comlink upgrades.... NO
Fake sin... No
shoot people... no
talk to people... no
climb fence... no

So after three runs where he spend every round of shooting going on full defense the rest of the players tried to talk to him. Not doing much on hacking since his comlink sucked he spend most of his time reading shadowrun books they asked why they should be splitting the job with him if he is not contributing. I essentially had to tell him that the Johnson Big Jim would not call him for the next job so he should make a more balanced character.

We will see how that goes tomorrow the next day my game runs.

[jakephillips]

Oh and he tried to go to a meet with a johnson downtown in an AA neighborhood with no SIN. Can I just whip one up on the fly...? NO

[Cain]

I may be off here, but I think the goal is to reduce the situation before proof (such as people quitting) actually happens.

Mildly irritating to be around isn't enough to force a player to change his character concept. I've seen many "well-rounded" characters who caused more problems than that.

This sounds like a player problem. Trying to fix the character won't help; you need to discuss things with the player. And then, only if he's causing "real" problems, not just: "He sucks!"

[Yerameyahu]

In fairness, him sucking *is* a real problem.

[tagz]

Communication with the player is important. I had a couple of these very chats a little while back.

I basiclly said this:

"I want you to have fun. I'm worried your character isn't going to be fun. It is hyper-specialized and is only situationally useful at BEST. I want you to spend a few minutes thinking about what he'll do when that situation isn't possible or isn't how the group decides to go about things. If you still want to play this you can, I want people to play what they want to, but just think about it a little."

Next day the character was scrapped and a much more rounded and versatile character was made. One that still very much kicks ass.

[Critias]

Some of you guys are acting like communicating with a player is the same as punching his mom in the boob. Playing an RPG is a group activity, and a collaborative effort. It shouldn't be that big a deal for a GM and a player to get together and share thoughts on a character...in fact, it should be a big deal when that doesn't happen.

Obviously you don't want to approach him with a print-out of this thread rolled up like an impromptu club, beating him with it, calling him a bad dog, and shouting "DUMPSHOCK THINKS YOU'RE STUPID!" But just talking to the guy as a GM and expressing a concern shouldn't be the end of the friggin' world.

[kjones]

Some of you guys are acting like communicating with a player is the same as punching his mom in the boob.

I just shot Dr. Pepper out of my nose.

[Mooncrow]

I just shot Dr. Pepper out of my nose.

Mt. Dew here, but same effect^^

Well said (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Well, clearly we have very different gaming groups. Excuse me, I have to practice my boob-punching for next session…

[Kruger]

Yeah, you have to remember that it isn't out of line for a GM to say "This is how it's going to be in my game." After all, it's your game, and you're doing all the work. I know I wouldn't go through nearly the efforts I do in my current game if the players were just going to say "Fuck yooooo!!!! to the tone and characters and setting I've created. I told people what I was going to run and how it was going to be done when we started our current non-Shadowrun game. They thought my game sounded fun, so we went with it. If they had said no, we would have played something else, and I'd have hours of free time back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This player will either respect the fact that maybe his character isn't right for your game, or you might well just shed yourself a problem player/character.

[Kovu Muphasa]

The only thing I realy see it his the Improved Reflexes, how does it match up to the rest of the group.
If he is running around with 3 action and everyone has only 1 or 2 that can be a problem.

I have been playing in it for a while and here are my observations.

As far as Combat Monsters go, just tell him if he does not diversify a little he is going to be board out of his scull during some of the missions. From what I recall there are at least 3 Missions where the only skill on his list he will use will be Perception. Let him know this and he may be more open to diferent skills.

[Yerameyahu]

At the very least, get a good commlink and some pirated programs. You don't even need Logic, and your Hacking skills can be like 1 or 2. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (As an example of an easy secondary; I'm not saying he should be a kung-fu hacker.)

[Blastula]

If he's adamant, you could just show him movie clips about what always happens to the guy that brings a knife to a gunfight. Having your torso perforated can be a life changing experience.

[Kruger]

Everyone always forgets the key detail of the "bringing a knife to a gunfight" scene. Make sure the guy with a knife doesn't have a friend with a machinegun behind you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[suoq]

I'm looking forward to the movie about bringing knives to a gunfight.

http://www.vivamachete.com/

[Neraph]

The only thing I realy see it his the Improved Reflexes, how does it match up to the rest of the group.
If he is running around with 3 action and everyone has only 1 or 2 that can be a problem.

I fail to see how that's a problem.

[Yerameyahu]

You do fail! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The problem can be that the other players get annoyed, that's all.

[Neraph]

You do fail! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The problem can be that the other players get annoyed, that's all.

Actually in my experience the person with 3 or 4 IPs gets annoyed that the opposition dissapears before they get their 3rd IP.

[Yerameyahu]

Exactly: now *no one* is happy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's the same in all games: the guy who invested in the horse doesn't get to travel any faster than the rest of the group, and if you're the only character with darkvision, someone will just find a torch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Seriously though, Shadowrun's not too bad for that. We're all used to the hacker leaving and the mage leaving and the sam going full berserker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Maybe newbies aren't?

[Makki]

did you ask the group, if their SCs are willing to share money with somebody who's only contributing 20-40% ? i can think of some of my chars who will show him a 'get-lost-we-dont-need-you'-attitude after about three sessions. He'd probably disagree, but unfortunaly he's unable to express it