Shadowrun on the Xbox2? - Dumpshock Forums

Shadowrun on the Xbox2?, Doesn't seem likely...

ShadowPhoenix View Member Profile	Mar 9 2004, 11:02 PM Post #76
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 255 Joined: 10-May 03 From: CB/Omaha Sprawl Member No.: 4,568	I think both those Ideas would be interesting, and making the old SNES game or Gen Game into the XBox version(updating them a lot of course) would be pretty wizzer and I guess I could accept that as passable. I just would like to wish for something better, something more interactive and more in touch with the SR feel and spirit. Not just another FF or FPS

Johnny the Bull

Mar 9 2004, 11:19 PM

Post #77

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QUOTE (Slamm-O)

i guess i will seek questions to my legal query elsewhere.

No need. Microsoft has true property rights over any videogame using the Shadowrun intellectual property. You cannot use it without permission, even if the game is released freeware as it impinges on their exercise of that right. The law doesn't protect the right to profit off that IP, but the right to use the IP. It would be akin to writing the next part of Lord of the Rings without permission of JRRT's estate and releasing it freeware. Sure you're not charging it, but its using someone else's property in a manner that may go against their wishes.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Mar 9 2004, 11:23 PM Post #78
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Unless you made a parody. Which is probably what most fanfic writers are counting on to protect themselves... ~J

ShadowPhoenix View Member Profile	Mar 9 2004, 11:30 PM Post #79
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 255 Joined: 10-May 03 From: CB/Omaha Sprawl Member No.: 4,568	yeah, nothing like the shield of parody to allow you to usurp that IP stuff :P

Herald of Verjig... Herald of Verjigorm View Member Profile	Mar 9 2004, 11:36 PM Post #80
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017	Manipulating (and blatantly abusing) parody law: ShadowStumble a game of incompetence trying to be successful criminals in the Shadowrun setting.

gknoy

Mar 10 2004, 03:05 AM

Post #81

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QUOTE (Shadow)

(And yes I know Linux is the second coming but there is a reason games arn't made for it, it's damn hard to code for).

I don't think that's the real reason. (Yes, it can be messy to deploy for Linux -- glibc version what? What version of Qt? of X? emerge -up world ? ;))

The reason, as I see it, is of inertia. Building a modern game is HARD work, regardless of platform. One needs tools and toolkits and other libraries and such to be able to build something of sufficient complexity. People originally build games for Windows because that's where the market was (more chance of money). Now, that's still the case (I can count the games I know of that were made to run in Linux, even less not counting the Loki games), but also, the TOOLS are all for Windows games still. Well, and Console games.

No one wants to spend money and time developing a commercial-grade game toolkit for Linux because it's not financially viable. They make crossplatform tools for XBox/GC/PS2 (and sometimes Windows Too) because developers want to be able to saturate the game market, but the Linux segment is too small. Mac gamers face a similar problem, though arguably not quite as bad. Hell, I don't know if they ever did get a Halo port for Mac, despite its initial debut being at MACWORLD (I think).

If Someone (the open source community?) made tools suitable for game development on Linux, we might see more of it. Yes, these are in development, somewhat. =) I see it as good news. If I were starting from scratch, I'd go with a Linux game, simply because I don't have access to all the Windows based tools. And I'm a sucker. ;)

As an aside, everyone I've known talk about MFC and windows coding has said it is the spawn of everything evil. =D

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Mar 10 2004, 03:47 AM Post #82
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Halo had a Mac port; it came out not long after the Windows port. Probably some last spark of Bungie shining through. ~J

BitBasher View Member Profile	Mar 10 2004, 05:11 AM Post #83
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	New Bungie company slogan: "You like my hat? it's made out of cash!"

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Mar 10 2004, 05:15 AM Post #84
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	I liked their old hat better; it was made out of fucking awesome games. Sad thing is, when Microsoft offered to trade hats no one ended up with Bungie's first hat and Microsoft still has a money hat. ~J

Johnny the Bull

Mar 10 2004, 06:36 AM

Post #85

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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)

Unless you made a parody.

Which is probably what most fanfic writers are counting on to protect themselves...

~J

I agree, but dear god making an SR game and claiming parody as a defence for converting MS's IP would be a very fine line to tread. I wouldn't recommend it.

And if you released online/exported it you have copyright law in various jurisdictions to deal with. Not fun.

DV8

Mar 10 2004, 08:50 AM

Post #86

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QUOTE (Johnny the Bull)

QUOTE (Slamm-O @ Mar 8 2004, 08:21 AM)

i guess i will seek questions to my legal query elsewhere.

No need. Microsoft has true property rights over any videogame using the Shadowrun intellectual property. You cannot use it without permission, even if the game is released freeware as it impinges on their exercise of that right. The law doesn't protect the right to profit off that IP, but the right to use the IP. It would be akin to writing the next part of Lord of the Rings without permission of JRRT's estate and releasing it freeware. Sure you're not charging it, but its using someone else's property in a manner that may go against their wishes.

Would a game like Decker be in violation, then?

BitBasher View Member Profile	Mar 10 2004, 04:08 PM Post #87
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	I play decker! Then again I play NetHack too!

Shadow View Member Profile	Mar 10 2004, 04:24 PM Post #88
Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006	Hmm I am not sufficiently knowledgeable in legal ease, but it seems to me that common sense would say that I could make a game without using any copy write infringement (Shadowrun and it's trademark images are up for grabs on fanpro website as long as no affiliation or profit is made from them) nor profit of someone elses work, then it would be okay. I will have to send off some emails to ask some questions to WK and MS.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Mar 10 2004, 04:39 PM Post #89
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Once it crosses into the line of "computer/video game" WizKids no longer has a say in the matter. ~J

Rev

Mar 10 2004, 05:45 PM

Post #90

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QUOTE (DV8)

Would a game like Decker be in violation, then?

Seems certain to be a flagrant one to me, but I'm no copyright lawyer.

If it did not use all of the program and other attribute names from shadowrun it might stand a chance, depending on how heavily the mechanics were modified to turn it into a computer game. As is first microsoft IP lawyer that comes along the game is gone.

Johnny the Bull

Mar 11 2004, 10:36 AM

Post #91

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QUOTE (DV8)

QUOTE (Johnny the Bull @ Mar 10 2004, 12:19 AM)

QUOTE (Slamm-O @ Mar 8 2004, 08:21 AM)

i guess i will seek questions to my legal query elsewhere.

No need. Microsoft has true property rights over any videogame using the Shadowrun intellectual property. You cannot use it without permission, even if the game is released freeware as it impinges on their exercise of that right. The law doesn't protect the right to profit off that IP, but the right to use the IP. It would be akin to writing the next part of Lord of the Rings without permission of JRRT's estate and releasing it freeware. Sure you're not charging it, but its using someone else's property in a manner that may go against their wishes.

Would a game like Decker be in violation, then?

They'd be walking a fine line between infringing on Gibson and other CP writers IP and using genre conventions. Like I said, depends on jurisdiction, but without spending a few hours applying the tests and referring to similar-fact judgements, I'd say they are original enough to get by. As a general rule, an intellectual 'concept' requires a higher standard of proof for an action to arise.

Adam

Mar 11 2004, 02:21 PM

Post #92

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QUOTE (Shadow @ Mar 10 2004, 11:24 AM)

Hmm I am not sufficiently knowledgeable in legal ease, but it seems to me that common sense would say that I could make a game without using any copy write infringement (Shadowrun and it's trademark images are up for grabs on fanpro website as long as no affiliation or profit is made from them) nor profit of someone elses work, then it would be okay. I will have to send off some emails to ask some questions to WK and MS.

I'm not a lawyer, but it's pretty clear from the legal text that WizKids has given permission for people to use the unmodified Shadowrun logo on non-commercial web pages.

Other material - book covers, etc - is covered under fair use, but I don't think "putting it in my computer game" is fair use.

And please - it's copyright - the 'right to copy', not copywrite. :)

But yes, if you want the absolute answer, email the relevant people at WizKids and MS, depending on what you're working on.

Johnny the Bull

Mar 12 2004, 01:46 AM

Post #93

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QUOTE (Shadow)

Hmm I am not sufficiently knowledgeable in legal ease, but it seems to me that common sense would say that I could make a game without using any copy write infringement (Shadowrun and it's trademark images are up for grabs on fanpro website as long as no affiliation or profit is made from them) nor profit of someone elses work, then it would be okay. I will have to send off some emails to ask some questions to WK and MS.

Common law systems are deeply rooted in positivist legal theory - law does not need reflect reality because the world is so complex that the law can never perfectly fit social and moral conventions. Don't rely on 'common sense' when deciding whether to do something like this. If you did make an SR game using SR IP without MS's permission you would get slammed, no question.

Slamm-O View Member Profile	Mar 12 2004, 10:34 AM Post #94
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 132 Joined: 4-May 03 Member No.: 4,535	i think there is a big question actually, since youd have to be at least somewhat popular to draw the attecntion of anyone for a lawsuit case in point, that game decker, or battletechmodproductions.com and all the other mods/freeware games out there that use other people IP, the ip holders dont see it as a threat or see it as more trouble than its worth. Not saying anyone should count on that, but come on all youd have to do is not include credits and then release it onto irc, p2p, ftp, or something else anonymously (maybe even from a connection that doesnt trace back toyou, then get rid of your original code/other work if you are really paranoid) then you just did what you wanted, easy to do as long as you dont keep an avenue to you open (like you would if you were selling a game). And if MPAA/RIAA cant stop transfer of unwanted files, neither can any other ip holder.

Johnny the Bull

Mar 12 2004, 11:34 PM

Post #95

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QUOTE (Slamm-O)

i think there is a big question actually, since youd have to be at least somewhat popular to draw the attecntion of anyone for a lawsuit case in point, that game decker, or battletechmodproductions.com and all the other mods/freeware games out there that use other people IP, the ip holders dont see it as a threat or see it as more trouble than its worth. Not saying anyone should count on that, but come on all youd have to do is not include credits and then release it onto irc, p2p, ftp, or something else anonymously (maybe even from a connection that doesnt trace back toyou, then get rid of your original code/other work if you are really paranoid) then you just did what you wanted, easy to do as long as you dont keep an avenue to you open (like you would if you were selling a game). And if MPAA/RIAA cant stop transfer of unwanted files, neither can any other ip holder.

I am not saying it can't be done - it can be, just not legally. If people are willing to develop it and release it without legal protection, all well and good. Also, you are dealing with MS's IP rights. Microsoft, as I learnt the hard way, pursues those that infringe on its IP rights as a matter of principle, regardless of its cost/benefit.

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