Broken Rules., Or where RAW just fails. Options

[Neurosis]

Now heres the kicker: The maximum amount of damage you can heal with first aid is capped by your skill. In essence a person with no skill and a rank six medkit is a vastly better medic then a person with 3 in first aid and a rating 6 medkit. It's the only thing in the game I can think of that actually punishes you for having a skill and hands out free ranks in a skill like candy.

Like many of the dumber things about RAW I was house ruling this without even knowing about it.

[Rastus]

Now heres the kicker: The maximum amount of damage you can heal with first aid is capped by your skill. In essence a person with no skill and a rank six medkit is a vastly better medic then a person with 3 in first aid and a rating 6 medkit. It's the only thing in the game I can think of that actually punishes you for having a skill and hands out free ranks in a skill like candy.

While that rule is indeed buggered, for what little it's worth there is a small fix featured in Augmentation:

... The maximum number of boxes that First Aid can heal is the Rating of the medical equipment or the First
Aid skill of the character, whichever is higher...

So basically under this rule-fix, if your average paramedic has 3 skill and an R:6 medkit, he'll still be able to heal up to 6 boxes in one go, as opposed to decreasing his potential success due to his higher competance when compared to some clueless guy who happens to have a top-of-the-line medkit.

Now while this is only an obscure amendment to a broken rule in the back end of a suppliment, it's such an easy and completely sensible fix I can't help but wonder why the bloody hell this wasn't made a de-facto rule in the core book.

[Neraph]

Because that would be easy.

[Saint Sithney]

Can we get into toxins yet?

A full chemical seal suit which has been punctured offers no chemical protection from contact or inhalation toxins.
A PPP jockstrap with rating 6 chemical protection does. Both contact and inhalation.

[TommyTwoToes]

Can we get into toxins yet?

A full chemical seal suit which has been punctured offers no chemical protection from contact or inhalation toxins.
A PPP jockstrap with rating 6 chemical protection does. Both contact and inhalation.

Dangly parts!

[sabs]

Wait why can you put any chemical/elemental mods on a PPP part?

I would imagine those kinds of mods are only for full suits, and not for addon pieces of extra protection.

[Dakka Dakka]

Wait why can you put any chemical/elemental mods on a PPP part?

I would imagine those kinds of mods are only for full suits, and not for addon pieces of extra protection.

Chemical seal (which also includes a self contained breathing apparatus) is for full body armor only, chemical protection can be added to any type of armor.

[StealthSigma]

Max IP, and IP stacking
If all you own is SR4a you would think that the max IP is 5.

Some implants and magic may give a character extra actions to
take in each Combat Turn. These are noted as extra Initiative Passes
on the character’s record sheet. The maximum number of Initiative
Passes a character can have is 5, but most character types can only ever
achieve 4.

Most characters may not act in more than 4 Initiative
Passes in a Combat Turn (even if they spend Edge).

It reads to me like 5 IP max are an exception and a hard cap while 4 IP is the soft cap most of the time.

[Stahlseele]

5 is only for technomancers and hackers. which is dumb.

[sabs]

5 is only for technomancers and hackers. which is dumb.

That very well maybe true.. but it certainly doesn't say that.

And it's dumb because it means a rigger jumped into a drone gets 5IP's a round in the meat.

[Dakka Dakka]

And it's dumb because it means a rigger jumped into a drone gets 5IP's a round in the meat.

But needs to spend one complex action to keep his vehicle from crashing. I know Jarheads don't have that problem. I'd not say that this rule is broken, just unfair.

Another weird thing is that initiative enhancements which are not supposed to stack are not clearly defined. The description of the MBW suggests that even Reaction enhancers (which only boost the initiative score indirectly) are Initiative Enhancements. Not technically broken but ill defined.

[sabs]

But needs to spend one complex action to keep his vehicle from crashing. I know Jarheads don't have that problem. I'd not say that this rule is broken, just unfair.

Another weird thing is that initiative enhancements which are not supposed to stack are not clearly defined. The description of the MBW suggests that even Reaction enhancers (which only boost the initiative score indirectly) are Initiative Enhancements. Not technically broken but ill defined.

That's only true if the rigger is moving his drone/vehicle.
If I jump into a smart firing platform, with a heavy machine gun on it.
I get to fire 5 Full Auto, with almost no recoil.

[Stahlseele]

And by then, it is broken.
But why no close to no recoil?
OK, still leaves you with doing one wide burst to lessen dodge pool of targets and then use several narrow bursts to hurt them with.

[sabs]

A Smart Firing Platform is a non moving Robotic Tripod providing 6 points of Recoil Compensation

Put a L/M/HMG with a gas vent 3 system and you have 9 points of recoil compensation
ie: 0 recoil

Sure, you can't move. This is more useful for Defense, then Offense. Although, if your team uses good tactics, it can be quite useful.

[Neraph]

Can we get into toxins yet?

A full chemical seal suit which has been punctured offers no chemical protection from contact or inhalation toxins.
A PPP jockstrap with rating 6 chemical protection does. Both contact and inhalation.

PPP Vitals Protector is only 1/1 armor, so it can only accept 2 points of Chemical Protection (as it follows the Armor Modifications rules and not the Armor Capacity rules [as it has no Capacity]).

[sabs]

PPP Vitals Protector is only 1/1 armor, so it can only accept 2 points of Chemical Protection (as it follows the Armor Modifications rules and not the Armor Capacity rules [as it has no Capacity]).

Shouldn't there be a difference between Chemical protection for things like splash attacks (acid, some venoms)
and gas/inhale/touch toxins?

[Dakka Dakka]

PPP Vitals Protector is only 1/1 armor, so it can only accept 2 points of Chemical Protection (as it follows the Armor Modifications rules and not the Armor Capacity rules [as it has no Capacity]).

Only if you use those optional rules.

@sabs: maybe there should.

[Neraph]

Possibly, but that's adding a whole new level of detail and rules to the game that would be unneccessary.

Has anyone mentioned spirits being affected by Toxins yet?

[Stahlseele]

A Smart Firing Platform is a non moving Robotic Tripod providing 6 points of Recoil Compensation

Put a L/M/HMG with a gas vent 3 system and you have 9 points of recoil compensation
ie: 0 recoil

Sure, you can't move. This is more useful for Defense, then Offense. Although, if your team uses good tactics, it can be quite useful.

Ah i see.
Have the Teams Troll or Centaur carry the whole thing then . .
Wait, does the same recoil apply if the troll were using this to fire the gun while holding the whole thing in his hands?

[sabs]

Ah i see.
Have the Teams Troll or Centaur carry the whole thing then . .
Wait, does the same recoil apply if the troll were using this to fire the gun while holding the whole thing in his hands?

Well, I would think not.
You have to deploy the tripod to get the rc 6 tripod bonus.
But If the troll was strong enough, he could get you 3 point of recoil compensation.
So you'd be sitting at 6rc while he had the whole thing in his arms. (or mounted to his shoulder (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

The gas vent recoil /would/ apply though.

You could go with Gas Vent 3 (3), Heavy Barrel(1), Electronic firing (1)
That would give you 5 points, combined with his 2 or 3 points get you to 8 roughly, for a Troll Mounted Shoulder HMG with 5ips from the Rigger running it.

Your best bet would be to have the troll carry it, and use an action to deploy it.
If you added the high velocity modification, you'd even want the extra recoil mod so you could fire full auto high velocity at 0 penalty.
18P -3AP for the win (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Can someone explain to me why Machineguns cannot get the High Velocity Modifiction? (other than nebulous 'game balance')
What makes a sub machinegun or an assault rifle, special compared to a machine gun?
I suppose I coudl go with the minigun option. Turning a stoner-Ares M107 into a heavy minigun.
Still I need to find 14 points of recoil compensation.
Smart firing Platform: 6
Gas Vent 3: 3
Heavy Barrel(1)
Electronic Firing (1)

Sadly that's only 11. That still gives me 3 uncompensated recoil which explodes to -6 to my DP.. sigh.

[Stahlseele]

Makes me wonder just how well a fan-driven re-write of the SR4/A rules would go over... and by rewrite, I mean fans going over the sections and clearing up all ambiguity and previous edition referencing.

i'll guess this is more or less what they are trying to accomplish with the errata board on the official forums . . of course, this would not be for the initial product for causal and temporal reasons . .

[Yerameyahu]

What's wrong with 'nebulous game balance' as the reason? It's a game, that should be the primary reason behind everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Be creative, though. Maybe SMG/AR bullets work for HV because they're smaller; yes, AR and LMG are the same bullets, try to ignore this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) A better question is: why is it called High *Velocity*?

There are no rules to minigun-ize anything, so that's a GM build-from-scratch.

[KarmaInferno]

What's wrong with 'nebulous game balance' as the reason? It's a game, that should be the primary reason behind everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Be creative, though. Maybe SMG/AR bullets work for HV because they're smaller; yes, AR and LMG are the same bullets, try to ignore this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) A better question is: why is it called High *Velocity*?

There are no rules to minigun-ize anything, so that's a GM build-from-scratch.

Heh, if you look at the old artwork for the original Ares HVAR and HVLMG they look an awful lot like they have multiple barrels.

Also, did they ever stat out the minigun pistol featured in the promotional flyer for the aborted Shadowrun: Assassin video game?



-karma

[sabs]

What's wrong with 'nebulous game balance' as the reason? It's a game, that should be the primary reason behind everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Be creative, though. Maybe SMG/AR bullets work for HV because they're smaller; yes, AR and LMG are the same bullets, try to ignore this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) A better question is: why is it called High *Velocity*?

There are no rules to minigun-ize anything, so that's a GM build-from-scratch.

It says in Arsenal that any Machine Gun can be turning into a minigun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I think you'll find that it doesn't.