Broken Rules., Or where RAW just fails. Options

[Yerameyahu]

Throwing implies it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) I realize which thread this is, but seriously. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Death loogies!

[Neraph]

Fukimi-bari? What?

[Jaid]

OH. That's what you meant. I thought the premise here was 'cat claws bypass, so throw a cat'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Otherwise, why *bother*? Just throw things, forget the dumb cat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

ongoing damage from the cat. (note: a cybertooth warform biodrone is also a 'cat', which is a wonderfully vague word that has a common accepted meaning that isn't necessarily quite the same as the official meaning (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[Neraph]

Not quite sure if this qualifies completely, but has anyone else noticed that you use Unarmed Combat for retractable cyber spurs, but Blades for forearm snap-blades, which are just external cyber spurs?

[Yerameyahu]

Just be glad that Exotic Melee Weapon isn't required for either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Marcus]

Not quite sure if this qualifies completely, but has anyone else noticed that you use Unarmed Combat for retractable cyber spurs, but Blades for forearm snap-blades, which are just external cyber spurs?

Really I thought it was just blades? They are on the blades table Page 337, of the 4th main book.
But they do seem to keep showing up as unarmed combat on NPC sheets. I don't really follow that logic.

[Neraph]

Well no, the text for Forearm Snap Blades states that it's an external version of Spurs. Spurs are Unarmed Combat, but Forearm Snap Blades are listed as Blades. Odd.

[Critias]

Well no, the text for Forearm Snap Blades states that it's an external version of Spurs. Spurs are Unarmed Combat, but Forearm Snap Blades are listed as Blades. Odd.

Spurs use the Blades skill, not Unarmed. "Cyber-Implant Blades" is even listed as an available specialization for Blades.

Off the top of my head, only shock hands use Unarmed.

EDIT: Here we go. Augmentation, page 169, lists all the different cyber-weapons by what skill they use. Ironically (and hopefully it will be errata'd away), it lists shock hands under Blades. At any rate, it does list all the other weapons and what skill they use (Exotic Melee Weapons for the fangs and horns, that sort of thing).

It would be a totally understandable house rule (to me, at least), to change cyber spurs, hand razors, etc, over to Unarmed Combat. The direct neural interface brought about by paying Essence for the blade makes it feel like a part of the user's arm/hand and allows him to blah blah blah use the regular Unarmed Combat skill with it. I can see it making sense either way, and lumping it into Unarmed kind of helps the sammie that wants to be able to hit hard and stab with an implanted weapon, without also being an expert fencer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Neraph]

Bah. This is what I get for thinking about something at work with no books printed and posting it the moment I get home.

Working in a guard shack for 8 hours with about 30 minutes of actual work gets to you. I'm sure others around here know what I'm talking about.

[Critias]

Bah. This is what I get for thinking about something at work with no books printed and posting it the moment I get home.

Working in a guard shack for 8 hours with about 30 minutes of actual work gets to you. I'm sure others around here know what I'm talking about.

No harm, no foul, man.

My job wasn't sitting in a guard shack, but it was sitting in a cubicle from 11pm-7am, six nights a week...and, much like yours, with -- on a good day -- remarkably little going on. Turns the brain to mush about halfway through the shift, and there's not much you can do about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) And like I said, it wouldn't be the worst house rule ever, to lump all cyber-implant stuff into Unarmed.

[Neraph]

My home away from home 3 days a week is a 10-foot cube made of basically windows framed in cinderblocks with an ac/heater, a couple of phones, a mini-fridge, a microwave, and the gate controls. I get to play Security with the truck drivers that come through my area. I added in an after-market radio though, otherwise 9/10 times the guards in there would be asleep.

Oh, and since I'm in Texas, we have an obligatory cattle field on the other side of the 3-lane road, complete with longhorns. Right next to the trucking gate for an airport. Seriously.

Most of the time I bring my books with me and look them over (when else did you think I have the time to come up with the crazy things I do), but the people who can get me fired are making sure work is very boring lately. We've had a few people get fired for having their cellphones on them, not even neccessarily being in use.

[Mayhem_2006]

Does Missile Mastery specify you have to use your arms to throw?

Could you kill someone by hocking a loogie through their forehead?

-k

Or. to quote ultimate hawkeye

"Shouldn't have left me my fingernails, dummy."

[Dumori]

Does Missile Mastery specify you have to use your arms to throw?

Could you kill someone by hocking a loogie through their forehead?



-k

Oh my thats up there with popcorn as the most inane weapon in the game. Plus no need for ammo most of the time.

[CeeJay]

I just stumbled across this:

Set Data Bomb:
When a data bomb is triggered, it causes its rating in Matrix Damage to the icon that tripped it and performs its secondary effect (if any), and then is deleted.

And only 2 pages later...

Data Bomb:
You can defuse a data bomb simply by entering the correct passcode. Without the passcode, you can only disable a detected data bomb with a successful Disarm Data Bomb action (p. 231). When it “detonates,” a data bomb inflicts a number of boxes of Matrix damage equal to (rating x 1D6), then the data bomb is deleted.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

-CJ

[Doc Chase]

My home away from home 3 days a week is a 10-foot cube made of basically windows framed in cinderblocks with an ac/heater, a couple of phones, a mini-fridge, a microwave, and the gate controls. I get to play Security with the truck drivers that come through my area. I added in an after-market radio though, otherwise 9/10 times the guards in there would be asleep.

Oh, and since I'm in Texas, we have an obligatory cattle field on the other side of the 3-lane road, complete with longhorns. Right next to the trucking gate for an airport. Seriously.

Most of the time I bring my books with me and look them over (when else did you think I have the time to come up with the crazy things I do), but the people who can get me fired are making sure work is very boring lately. We've had a few people get fired for having their cellphones on them, not even neccessarily being in use.

Now I wonder if you're the guy I'd be yelling at for bills of lading for that area. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Neraph]

Now I wonder if you're the guy I'd be yelling at for bills of lading for that area. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Bills of lading?

EDIT: Oh, no. I only handle the security aspect, which is verifying drivers are who they say they are and not allowing certain peoples (mainly minors, but also unregistered drivers) from entering the property. All the shipping stuff is handled by a different gate.

EDIT EDIT: That doesn't stop some people from getting upset with me though. I tend to take a duck in a rainstorm philosophy when that happens though.

[Doc Chase]

Bills of lading?

EDIT: Oh, no. I only handle the security aspect, which is verifying drivers are who they say they are and not allowing certain peoples (mainly minors, but also unregistered drivers) from entering the property. All the shipping stuff is handled by a different gate.

EDIT EDIT: That doesn't stop some people from getting upset with me though. I tend to take a duck in a rainstorm philosophy when that happens though.

Heheh. I wonder because security handles the BOL's for mah business. They verify the truckers (usually), ensure the bills are signed and then file them away so they can complain later when I ask for them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

I just stumbled across this:

OLD databombs

And only 2 pages later...

NEW databomb

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

-CJ

the Changes in 20A pdf states that databombs were made more dangerous by giving them ridiculous damage output. I'm assuming that change just didn't make it into all the places in the book.

Seriously it's just another one of those things that make me disregard 20A entirely.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

the Changes in 20A pdf states that databombs were made more dangerous by giving them ridiculous damage output. I'm assuming that change just didn't make it into all the places in the book.

Seriously it's just another one of those things that make me disregard 20A entirely.

Why?

[Neraph]

They be hatin'.

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Why?

It's not what it should be - a well thought out update to the product. It's just the same mostly crappy editing and proof-reading as before, with a few rules changes that don't seem to have been thought through. The single best thing is the index.

In my current group we are disregarding everything that's not in the errata for SR4 basic. It's mostly a matter of not even having the book, but I wouldn't want to use some of those things, either.

[RANT]
Look, a rating 6 Databomb by the new rules does a MINIMUM of its rating as damage, and on average 21 boxes! And chances are you'll be hit with 30 or even 36 boxes. That's just ridiculous. NOTHING in the entire fricken game does that amount of damage. If it did Rating D6 boxes, a little better, you would more often be closer to the average. But rating times 1d6 is just.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

If they had wanted to make databombs more dangerous a flat x2 multiplier would have been fine. Making the guy that places it make a roll and adding successes to the damage would have been fine. But like this? Who writes such crap, and then who checks it? Aparently NOONE thought this through. Everyone and their mother can put databombs in their commlink or other node. Yes, it's only matrix damage, and it will only kick you out, but still. You need quite a few dice to reliably resist dumpshock. Oh, and Technomancers? Ain't they fucked good. This would make technomancers very bad - and short-lived - hackers.

It's also a COMPLETE deviation from established mechanisms in the game. NOTHING does absolutely RANDOM damage. This is really a broken rule beyond all doubt.

[/RANT]

[Ascalaphus]

Hear, hear.

And add to that the fact that nobody's stepped forward to give a good explanation of what data bombs actually do..

[Yerameyahu]

They bomb you with data. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Or bomb your data. Something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Many things in the game do random damage, but not like data bombs. It should be 'roll Rating(*X) as a DP for damage'.

[sabs]

Databombs have imbedded blackout or blackice in them.

[Dakka Dakka]

Many things in the game do random damage, but not like data bombs. It should be 'roll Rating(*X) as a DP for damage'.

When is damage ever rolled in SR4? This would be a completely new mechanism.