 Broken Rules., Or where RAW just fails. |
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 Oct 14 2010, 02:34 PM
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#626
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Advocatus Diaboli  Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282  |
All attacks do net hits damage. Yes, they have a base as well.
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Oct 14 2010, 02:36 PM
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#627
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,996 Joined: 1-June 10 Member No.: 18,649 |
Poisons and toxins don't do net hits damage.
They do just their flat damage. |
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Oct 14 2010, 02:39 PM
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#628
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
And they're not an attack.
I do think it's weird that Data Bombs aren't programs, nor run, and can be set freely (we talked about this in another thread, I think). There should be some limitations. |
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Oct 14 2010, 02:43 PM
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#629
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,996 Joined: 1-June 10 Member No.: 18,649 |
Databombs work pretty similarly to a toxin.
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Oct 14 2010, 02:45 PM
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#630
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 873 Joined: 16-September 10 Member No.: 19,052 |
QUOTE (sabs @ Oct 14 2010, 04:24 PM)  Databombs have imbedded blackout or blackice in them. Actually not, as far as I can tell. They just do Matrix damage, like cybercombat, and knock you out of the matrix, giving you dumpshock. (5S or 5P). However, Technomancers take this damage immediately as stun or physical damage (I forget how Feedback Filter = Charisma plays in this), which makes databombs - or anything that does matrix damage - all the more dangerous to them. |
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Oct 14 2010, 02:46 PM
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#631
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Do they? How many toxins roll 1d6 for damage? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I do think it *could* make sense for Data Bombs to be analogized as 'Matrix toxins'. They're *not*, at all, but it could make sense to do so. The way things stand, they're mildly related to 'demolition booby-traps', but we're already discussing how that's not very apt, either. |
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Oct 14 2010, 02:49 PM
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#632
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 14 2010, 04:34 PM) All attacks do net hits damage. Yes, they have a base as well. Sure, but the variable damage is calculated from a previous attack roll. Damage itself is never rolled in SR4, unlike in some other systems like for instance oWoD.
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Oct 14 2010, 02:50 PM
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#633
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
That's definitely true. I was only pointing out that there's a 'native' way to let the data bombs do random damage, and that many things in the game have an important random damage component. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Oct 14 2010, 03:28 PM
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#634
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 250 Joined: 16-January 09 From: Nowhere near you... unless you happen to be near Cologne. Member No.: 16,776 |
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Oct 14 2010, 04:49 PM) Sure, but the variable damage is calculated from a previous attack roll. Damage itself is never rolled in SR4, unlike in some other systems like for instance oWoD. What about summoning drain? That's pretty random, isn't it? -CJ |
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Oct 14 2010, 03:32 PM
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#635
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 873 Joined: 16-September 10 Member No.: 19,052 |
QUOTE (CeeJay @ Oct 14 2010, 05:28 PM) What about summoning drain? That's pretty random, isn't it? -CJ It's random, but it follows established principles: you roll a number of d6s for a point of damage per (net) hit - just like any attack test. |
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Oct 14 2010, 09:40 PM
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#636
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,899 Joined: 29-October 09 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Member No.: 17,814 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 14 2010, 04:13 PM) They bomb you with data. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Or bomb your data. Something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Many things in the game do random damage, but not like data bombs. It should be 'roll Rating(*X) as a DP for damage'. Something that's so hard to explain what it even is shouldn't be that powerful. QUOTE (sabs @ Oct 14 2010, 04:24 PM) Databombs have imbedded blackout or blackice in them. They do Matrix damage, so, no. Also, what kind of lame bomb only damages the person handling it, not everything around it? QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 14 2010, 04:46 PM) Do they? How many toxins roll 1d6 for damage? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I do think it *could* make sense for Data Bombs to be analogized as 'Matrix toxins'. They're *not*, at all, but it could make sense to do so. The way things stand, they're mildly related to 'demolition booby-traps', but we're already discussing how that's not very apt, either. "Matrix toxin" is the best I've heard to far yeah, but that suggests ways to handle them "with gloves". Basically any explanation about what data bombs are will likely lead to ideas about how to handle them or abuse them, because it's technology, and technology should be cleverly used. |
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Oct 14 2010, 09:51 PM
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#637
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
*shrug* We know how to handle them and use them. You set them with Data Bomb, and you defuse them with Disarm, after detecting them.
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Oct 14 2010, 09:53 PM
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#638
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,899 Joined: 29-October 09 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Member No.: 17,814 |
we have a thing, about which the only thing we really know are the rules. Which seem strange to us, and not necessarily a good thing.
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Oct 14 2010, 10:13 PM
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#639
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
It does Matrix attack damage, whatever that is. I understand that it's nice to have fluff on things, but it doesn't change the crunch. Regardless of the fluff, you should change data bombs if you don't like how they work in your game. I still think they should be limited, because it's silly that you can place an infinite number of them, quickly, almost anywhere, and you're simply immune to your own. There should be tradeoffs.
How about the hacker has to play a real-life game of minesweeper to defuse them? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Oct 15 2010, 02:55 AM
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#640
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 14 2010, 04:13 PM) It does Matrix attack damage, whatever that is. I understand that it's nice to have fluff on things, but it doesn't change the crunch. Regardless of the fluff, you should change data bombs if you don't like how they work in your game. I still think they should be limited, because it's silly that you can place an infinite number of them, quickly, almost anywhere, and you're simply immune to your own. There should be tradeoffs. How about the hacker has to play a real-life game of minesweeper to defuse them? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Which is exactly what the Defuse Program does... you win, you defuse the bomb, you lose, you take Rating(D6) or Rating*1D6 depending upon how you read it... Seems like Minesweeper to me... And yes, Databombs are extremely deadly now... So what... |
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Oct 15 2010, 03:08 AM
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#641
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
No, actual Minesweeper, instead of rolling. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It was a joke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Oct 15 2010, 03:15 AM
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#642
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 14 2010, 09:08 PM) No, actual Minesweeper, instead of rolling. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It was a joke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Pfft.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
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Oct 15 2010, 03:51 AM
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#643
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 14 2010, 11:08 PM) No, actual Minesweeper, instead of rolling. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It was a joke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHY8NKj3RKs -k |
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Oct 15 2010, 05:29 AM
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#644
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 14 2010, 10:51 PM) That. Was. Awsome. |
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Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM
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#645
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,989 Joined: 28-July 09 From: Somewhere along the brazilian coast Member No.: 17,437 |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2010, 12:51 AM) That's an old still funny video whenever I watch. Teacher: "THAT CLOCK IS GOING TO KEEP TICKING UNTIL IT REACHES NINE NINE NINE!" Apprentice: "what happens then?" Teacher: "NOTHING. you just suck!" |
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Nov 8 2010, 10:00 AM
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#646
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
Got another one:
You can't learn non-defaultable skills in SR4A: To learn a new skill you need to succeed at a INT+skill test with a threshold equal to twice the new skill rating, but you can't default on skills like Ritual Spellcasting. |
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Apr 3 2011, 11:43 PM
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#647
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 13-March 11 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 24,230 |
QUOTE (Dumori @ Oct 5 2010, 02:41 PM) Yeah I said this is a build to so how broke the rules are its more insane than Binky. Binky was a surged centaur with basicly fullbody replacement and made a cybezombie was semi homebrewed but not really. Made a bit of a hover tank all in all. Sorry to bump a dead topic, but... What? This sentence structure is more akin to something from South America than actual English. I do admit though, that some of those words are English. |
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Apr 4 2011, 01:04 AM
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#648
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,147 Joined: 2-May 10 Member No.: 18,539 |
You did thread necromancy to criticize someone's poor sentence structure from half a year ago? That is a sad, sad excuse for thread necromancy, sir.
QUOTE (Dumori @ Oct 5 2010, 05:41 PM) Yeah, I said this is a build to show how broken the rules are; its more insane than Binky. Binky was a surged centaur with basically full body replacement and made a cyberzombie - he was semi-homebrewed but not really. Made a bit of a hover tank all in all. |
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Apr 4 2011, 01:18 AM
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#649
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I hope we have a punishment for this.
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Apr 4 2011, 01:45 AM
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#650
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 13-March 11 From: Portland, Oregon Member No.: 24,230 |
I was searching to see if a question had already been asked rather than asking it again (which I'm aware is another source of annoyance for forum regulars). I found a promising post, but I could only tell that the subject matched my query. Nothing more.
It's amazing what 12 missing characters, incomprehensible grammar, and a 60% hit rate on punctuation can do to a post. |
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