The Idiot's Guide To Rigging Thread, Support for the Vehicularly Challenged Options

[Kagetenshi]

Ok, finally got a chance to look, and I can't find anything about a server system for CRDs... book/page#?

~J

[Nikoli]

Would using the battle tac system allow you to pull up ionformation in the network as a simple action? If it works for teh handelds that are connected it should work for the rigger with the master unit as well.

[Kagetenshi]

I would imagine so... not sure I understand your question, though.

~J

[ShadowPhoenix]

Kagetenshi your page reference is Page 85 R3 Revised. Also another thing to keep in mind is that it only removes 1 port, the port from the RCD, not the CRD. Also another cool thing to look at is, if you are going the CRD route, don't put accessories into your CRD, throw them on the RCD and use it to serve, as all accessories of both decks get combined
:D

[lodestar]

Doesn't the higher rating of RCD increase the amount of damage from dumpshock that a Rigger suffers?

[Kagetenshi]

The Power, though not the damage level.

~J

[Kagetenshi]

Anyone brave or foolish enough to try to explain OpTempo? I think I'll take another look at the rules in the morning...

~J

[Seidaku]

First of all, let me say how glad I am this thread was created. Having just started playing my first rigger ever, I was thinking about starting a similar thread myself. The discussion thus far, however, seems to be aimed at a level far more advanced than I (and I think most starting riggers) are- any chance some comments could be made geared towards us newbies?

For example:

I'm not entirely clear on how to use the rules for manual versus sensor enhanced gunnery. Seeing as I'm predominantly a drone rigger, I imagine you could see how this could be annoying :-P. In order to get a better grasp of things, why don't I lay out the rules as I understand them so that you can yell at me for what I'm doing wrong.

Manual gunnery:
The rules, as I understand them:
-Only useable when you're directly rigging a vehicle; ie, cannot be used while in captain's chair mode.
-Drones you have given instructions to but are not being rigged directly CANNOT use manual gunnery
-Uses standard ranged combat rules (ie, perception and range modifiers, cover, etc) plus some extra vehicle specific modifiers
-Smartlink compatible, if both you, the vehicle, and the weapon in question have a smartlink
-Requires a complex action, so you can't make multiple attacks with a vehicle weapon in one initiative pass.

Questions I have:
-Since it requires a complex action to use manual gunnery no matter what type of fire you're using, is there any reason not to use full auto with guns that support it? (other than the recoil, which should be trivial given the halving of recoil mods for weapons mounted on vehicles)
-Since you're seeing through your vehicle's sensors, you use whatever they have as far as imaging technology is concerned, correct? Anyone care to lay out exactly what that amounts to? (thermographic, ultrasound, flare comp, etc) I know it differs by sensor level, but I can't remember specifics about how.


Sensor enhanced gunnery:
The rules, as I understand them:
-Can be used either when directly rigging a vehicle OR when a drone acts on your instructions when you aren't directly rigging.
-The ONLY way for drones to use weapons
-Normal ranged modifiers do NOT apply: No smartlinks, no perception mods, no range mods, no cover mods, etc.
-The only modifiers that DO apply are those specifically listed for Sensor enhanced gunnery (no BBB handy.. anyone want to quote a page number?)
-Sensor enhanced gunnery really consists of two complex actions: getting a sensor lock on a target (one complex action), and then firing on a locked target (another complex action). Now, this means that (assuming you always kill your target in one shot) that using sensor enhanced gunnery limits you to firing only once ever other initiative pass (as you have to lock on to a new target before firing).
-Base target number for gunnery test is the target's signature: for metahumans, trolls are 5, the rest are 6. This means it is usually HARDER to hit a metahuman using sensor enhanced gunnery than with manual, since you don't get a smartlink, and are usually starting at a base tn of 6 rather than 4.
-You get to add 1/2(round down) of the sensor rating of the vehicle you're using to the gunnery test. Combat pool can also be added.
-When a drone uses sensor enhanced gunnery when you're not directly rigged in, it uses its pilot rating instead of your gunnery skill. This means a drone is apt to not be terribly good at gunnery (considering that the highest you can enhance a drone's pilot rating to is 3 at chargen), even if you add some autosofts.

Questions I have:
-The rules are a little fuzzy on exactly how many actions are required for one use of sensor enhanced gunnery. It specifically states that making the sensor lock test requires a complex action, and firing the weapon takes a complex action (suggesting at least two combat passes to lock on and fire). It also reads, however, as though you can fire your weapon as soon as you lock on; as in, the same turn. This is rather an important thing to have clarified, as it can potentially mean either halving or double one's rate of fire (depending on which interpretation you're currently using).
-Direct line of sight: Not really clear on when this applies. As it means -3 to your gunnery test, more info here is rather important. For instance, if my Steel Lynx is firing on an orc standing 10 meters away on a sidewalk, does it have DOS? What if it is a semi-busy sidewalk? No?

Rules that apply to both:
-Can only fire ONE weapon per use.
-Uses the Gunnery skill for ALL weapons, regardless of type.
-Combat pool can be applied, if you're directly rigging a vehicle.

Questions I have:
-Unless you're dealing with HEAVY modifiers (long ranges, large amounts of cover/perception modifiers), aren't you better off using manual gunnery rather than sensor enhanced gunnery (even though the BBB says that sensor enhanced is more accurate)? You don't need to lock on, and you can use a smartlink. This means, assuming decent conditions, target numbers of 2 rather than 6, and you can fire once every pass rather than once every other pass (assuming you are switching targets with every shot).
-More questions will be added when I remember them :P

Comments?

[Frag-o Delux]

[Kagetenshi]

[Frag-o Delux]

I never have. We just say it cost 200 nuyen this run gas and call it a day or let our lifestyle cover it if it just local driving.

[Frag-o Delux]

[Kagetenshi]

I think you can make a manual gunnery shot using sensors, it's just not enhanced by the sensors (you're eyeballing the readings rather than actually "locking on").

~J

[Frag-o Delux]

Then use the sensor component listing on page 135 of the BBB. Then use the visual modifiers that those systems give. Like Low light in the dark offers +4?.

[Frag-o Delux]

Kage, my R3 says you should only really use the OpTempo rules for missions that are not your usual run around town jobs, they are more for the smuggler games and any other long range running. So I would not use OpTempo for your daily runs, maybe if you decide runnign a few crates of BTls to the FRFZ. The only thing you need to do is figure out the cost of the vehicle OpTempo rating, then at the end of the job multiply that by the Kilometers they went in the car. Generally just a big guess. Nothing really special, they just added rules to the Gm saying, Bob your Bison just went 4000 klicks it cost you 5,000 nuyen in gas and oil chages to keep it running. In other words just fudge it.

[Cain]

[Lindt]

[Kagetenshi]

He's talking missile intelligence.

~J

[Lindt]

Gah... *head slap* missed that one... out in the cold too long...

[ShadowPhoenix]

I've had a rigger in my game since my fiance began playing SR, I've mucked through the Rigger and Vehicle rules. Vehicle combat seemed quite difficult to me originally since you have to calculate so much into a vehicle manuever score. Problem I had once was my friend was trying to drive a roadmaster against some Yamaha Rapiers, he was going to slow down and ram them, but deceleration with a Roadmaster is a target # 6 to decelerate. my buddy had a big complaint when he apparently couldn't figure out how to stop his truck. Another big issue I've had is with multiple drones, and how to handle them in a combat scenario, in addition to the Rigger. Can the rigger perform any other actions in addition to running her drones? The way I think we were running it, the Rigger was sending commands and her drones would act on her initiative, and she would also perform her own actions, with modifiers for paying attention to her Rig.

I think this topic needs some Characters generated and some runs done.

Let's all list some examples of missions we'd like to see played out, and see who will step in as the GM/Player for each mission. That way we can all learn. If no one else ops to run the missions, I'll GM :P


Some things I'd like to see, is maybe a simple Vehicle Combat, then a single drone op(for basics of Rigging) and then a multiple drones combat, then a ECM MIJI kind of operation. anyone come up with any good missions?

[Kagetenshi]

It's pretty hard to stop a fair-sized van in a given distance... though I'm pretty sure minor deceleration doesn't require a test.

~J

[ShadowPhoenix]

yeah, the way I ruled it was that since he was trying to do a minor breaking but fast enough that the enemy wouldn't notice and so it would manuever him into position to ram the bikes with his fat truck arse, that they noticed his deceleration and manuevered themselves to compensate. This doesn't say he doesn't slow the truck, just that it had no real game effect.

[Fahr]

Ok...

I'll make a rigger char and run it through some of those things like in the matrix thread, all I need is
A) a gm
B) some time to throw together a balanced starting rigger using priority
c) a run.

-Mike R.

(PS my R3 book is not nearby, so I will play this as a player who may be wrong :) )

[ShadowPhoenix]

I've volunteered as GM unless someone more Rigger experienced is willing to, if I do run it then I'll probably be making heavy references to the R3 and SR3 books before I post anything, even then I might miss something so the rest of the gallery can make comments :) I'll try to think up some decent runs for the examples, and I hope some other people can come up with some ideas as well. I think a Smuggle run might be appropriate for the single vehicle combat(going over combat manuevers etc.) Single Drone might be well played as a sneak and surveillance kind of run, with some possibilities of Drone combat. MultiDrone might be better handled with a Rigger Overwatch style mission. ECM runs, I'll have to think about unless someone has some ideas for it. and feel free to take time on a balanced rigger, since if I'm the GM in the pipe, it'll take a lil while to dig up some good ideas for some missions/challenges :)

[Fahr]

Ok...

starting avail (8 or 6)
priority system Ok with you?

lets start with smuggling, we could work ECM ECCM into that without too much trouble.

I'll post the Char sometime today or tommorrow.

-Mike R.