Pure Adept vs bioware Adept - anyone has good houserules, to make the pure Adept more viable? Options

[Smokeskin]

No matter how you spin it, the amount of bonuses you can squeeze into an Essence point or two worth of ware is just amazing. The equivalent in Power Points just don't compare in any way, and Adepts use Magic attribute for so little there is hardly any trade off.

Does anyone know of some good house rules that remedy it? I've been thinking about making Attribute Boost better, or maybe some sort of Adept Skill Threading like technomancers have (that won't work with augmented bonuses), but maybe someone has something that works already?

[Makki]

reduce Increased Physical Attribute cost to a constant 0.5 up to augmented maximum.
make attribute boost a free action and different attributes can be boosted simultaneously adding the drain values together and one common duration

[IKerensky]

Hum, is a mystic adept with 1-2 points into spellcasting magic better than a pure adept ?

Is an augmented human better than a standard human ?

Why should a pure adept be equal or above an augmented adept ?

Isn't the problem into the fact that augmentation and powers are far too redundant and that there is nothing very specific that can be done only with one of them ? Isn't something you can only do with thoses 2pts of power ?

Is the trouble the same for a PhysAd, a Social Adept, a Stealth Adept ?

I dont really see a problem here, especially as some of the Canon adepts use cyber/bioware while initiating to keep on the rating.

[Dumori]

Hum, is a mystic adept with 1-2 points into spellcasting magic better than a pure adept ?

Is an augmented human better than a standard human ?

Why should a pure adept be equal or above an augmented adept ?

Isn't the problem into the fact that augmentation and powers are far too redundant and that there is nothing very specific that can be done only with one of them ? Isn't something you can only do with thoses 2pts of power ?

Is the trouble the same for a PhysAd, a Social Adept, a Stealth Adept ?

I dont really see a problem here, especially as some of the Canon adepts use cyber/bioware while initiating to keep on the rating.

Almost any house rule that boost the pure adept is goning to boost some cyber/bio adepts so leave it as is.

[Thanee]

You could allow pure Adepts (those with Essence 6) to use the optional rule, that they can gain a PP worth of powers instead of obtaining a Metamagic technique.

Bye
Thanee

[Stahlseele]

double essence costs for cyber/bioware for magical active types.

[Smokeskin]

I dont really see a problem here, especially as some of the Canon adepts use cyber/bioware while initiating to keep on the rating.

I don't think cyber/bio adepts are a problem, on the contrary that could be an interesting path too. The problem is how underpowered pure adepts are in comparison. I'd prefer buffing pure adepts to put them on an equal footing.

[Smokeskin]

reduce Increased Physical Attribute cost to a constant 0.5 up to augmented maximum.
make attribute boost a free action and different attributes can be boosted simultaneously adding the drain values together and one common duration

I've been thinking about something along the lines of this too. Attribute Boost really seems like a key power, where the main drawback is the simple action needed. It will also give a different feel to pure and bio adepts.

Have you playtested this?

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Increased attribute is really killed by its limitations. If you can't advance over natural maximum without paying a crapload people SHOULD in fact use Cyber/bio. So basically it would be best to remove the natural limit entirely, and just make it cost 0.5x overall. Since it doesn't stack, making it cheap enough that peple won't want bio is the key, IMHO.

[Smokeskin]

Almost any house rule that boost the pure adept is goning to boost some cyber/bio adepts so leave it as is.

If you limit it so it isn't compatible with bonuses from spells, cyberware or bioware, and/or it depends on the Magic attribute, it could work out fine.

[Dumori]

One key point if you even the bio adept with the pure adept then why take bio EVER?

[Smokeskin]

Increased attribute is really killed by its limitations. If you can't advance over natural maximum without paying a crapload people SHOULD in fact use Cyber/bio. So basically it would be best to remove the natural limit entirely, and just make it cost 0.5x overall. Since it doesn't stack, making it cheap enough that peple won't want bio is the key, IMHO.

0.5 on its own is still way too expensive. You need something else too, like buffing Attribute Boost (which only works with Increased Attritbute).

[Gamer6432]

Something like that would be really nice for those adepts in situations where 'ware grants no bonuses. Like shapeshifters, who by RAW can only benefit from Delta grade 'ware in their critter form.

[Smokeskin]

One key point if you even the bio adept with the pure adept then why take bio EVER?

If no one EVER takes bio, then it isn't even, is it?

[sabs]

Bio is for the mundanes?

I personally love the double essence cost for awakened meta-humans.

You can make a 4 essence Adept/Magician with 2.5 points of 'ware.

That is a HUGE amount of bonuses one can rack up.

Mix 'ware and Magic characters are vastly more powerful than their counter-examples.
Even a pure Magician would not mind trading in 1 point of essence, for 1.25 points of bonuses.

Trauma Dampener
genetic increases to stats
cerebral boosters
nano hive

[Karoline]

nano hive

You mean a cyberlimb to put the hive in?

Nanohive has a stupid high essence cost which is even more absurd when you consider the minimal capacity it costs.

[jaellot]

Love the idea of an Adept Threading. Off the top of my head I could see it as an Adept specific Metamagic Technique. Or a number of skills equal to Magic you can Thread. If you wanted to go with the Skill Boost power as a reference you could make it Active Skills are a 1 for 1 ratio, while Combat Skills ares a 2 for 1 ratio. Not sure what the roll would be, obviously Magic would be part of it though. Maybe it's time the Adepts got their own skills, like the other groups? Sorcery, Conjuring, Compiling, and something for Adepts? Hmm...

One of the limits of (any) ware is that you only have 6 Essence. Granted, you can tweak out all the Genetic mods with delta Bioware and so on, but still, you only have so much you can cram in. While progressively expensive Karma-wise (not to mention the amount of gameplay to accumulate said Karma), there is no rule to stop my Adept from eventually having a Magic Attribute in the 20's or 30's.

Maybe Adepts could just get a +1 to Magic Attribute when they gain an Initiate grade. Would cut the Karma cost, making it more appealing, instead of looking elsewhere for a bit more edge over the competition.

You could come up with a karma cost for Phys. Ad. powers, instead of relying on points from Magic Attribute. Those points could work at chargen, but afterwards you could just pay a set number of karma points to equal 1 point (or .5 or .25, depending on the power). Also you could use the Magic as the limit for powers that have levels, keeping it relevant and needed.

Have no idea how this should work with Mystic Adepts. Considering the split in how the Magic works I don't see a problem, but then again I'm not really trying to make it the end all, be all in bad-assness. I'm sure some one here will come up with a wicked combo and shoot the idea of "just let it work like this for them, too" out of the water.

[Mäx]

One of the limits of (any) ware is that you only have 6 Essence. Granted, you can tweak out all the Genetic mods with delta Bioware and so on, but still, you only have so much you can cram in.

Yeah, becouse there are only so many compatible pieces of ware in the books.
Seriously if the money isn't an issue, there aren't enought ware in the books that you can install to run out of essence, unless you intentionally go with more expensive(essence wise) cyber versions of ware thats availebul as both bio and cyber.

[Traul]

double essence costs for cyber/bioware for magical active types.

Or if you want something milder, the .5 modifier to the lowest bio or cyber Essence loss can be for Mundane only.

[Stahlseele]

That's a nice idea too.

[sabs]

Yeah, becouse there are only so many compatible pieces of ware in the books.
Seriously if the money isn't an issue, there aren't enought ware in the books that you can install to run out of essence, unless you intentionally go with more expensive(essence wise) cyber versions of ware thats availebul as both bio and cyber.

Cyberware:
cyber forearm (1)
Move by Wire 3 (delta)
Bone lacing (Titanium)
nanohive r6, some sensors


Everything else you get as genetherapy and bioware.

This is of course, assuming money isn't a limiting factor.

Those 4 pieces will put you near the 4 essence loss.
You take biocompatability Bioware, and you cram yourself with cyber essence loss - .01 points of bioware.

I think you can actually take almost every worthwhile piece of bioware in the game, at this point.

[Karoline]

And you could reasonably change the MBW to synaptic boosters, and the bone lacing to bone density and the forearm to simply a hand or foot.

Still, having some cyber is useful since you do get that .5 essence cost on whichever is lower.

[sabs]

And you could reasonably change the MBW to synaptic boosters, and the bone lacing to bone density and the forearm to simply a hand or foot.

Still, having some cyber is useful since you do get that .5 essence cost on whichever is lower.

MBW is +1 dodge, +2 reaction +1 IP per rating. That's +3 dodge better than Synaptic Boosters.
Bone density actually works differently than bone lacing. Also Bone density changes how much you weigh.

Yes, you could get 2 cyberfeet, with a nano hive and skimmer disks, instead of a forearm.

[Karoline]

MBW is +1 dodge, +2 reaction +1 IP per rating. That's +3 dodge better than Synaptic Boosters.
Bone density actually works differently than bone lacing. Also Bone density changes how much you weigh.

Yes, you could get 2 cyberfeet, with a nano hive and skimmer disks, instead of a forearm.

A single cyberfoot can hold 2 nanohives. Don't know why you keep advising more cyber than you really need for the nanohive.

You're right, you lose a point of armor and gain a point of body with bone density over lacing, but you're crazy if you think replacing porous bone with solid titanium doesn't increase your weight as well. Not to mention your bones trigger metal detectors now.

As for MBW, you're right, MBW does have some distinct advantages over the boosters. Besides the extra dodge, which is nice, and the extra reaction, which is possibly overkill, it also gives you high grade skillwires, which can be very handy. The question is if it is worth the huge difference in essence.

[sabs]

the feet are for the skimmer disks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
not the nanohives, the nanohives are just a bonus.

Well remember you're also using the huge diff in essence to pay half essence for everything else you're getting.
You're trying to get almost 8 points of essence loss in a 6 point body (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Skillwires 6, + the extra reaction. Which is potentially overkill, it's true. Although you can make it less overkill by using genetherapy on your reaction stat.