Pure Adept vs bioware Adept - anyone has good houserules, to make the pure Adept more viable? Options

[Ascalaphus]

Yes, but keep in mind that SPACE FRANCE (or whatever whacky hypothetical country we're talking about) does not CARE that much about reliably detecting bioware because (IIRC) bioware on its own does not have a tendency to make people explode. What they probably REALLY care about is things like cortex bombs, cyberguns, and hand razors which are all things that it would be much easier to reliably detect using assensing.

Certainly. But that's all cyberware, which is technologically detectable.

Also, almost invariably dice roll more hits than you can buy. At least that is what I see happen at my table. So I don't think Reliable = Buying Hits @ 4:1.

As a general rule, dice rolls that happen off-screen should use the Buying Hits principle. Also, 4:1 is reliable; 3:1 is average, with risk of rolling below average or even glitching.

Back on Adepts:
If you're a bio-adept, well first off, their astrally perceiving mages should be able to detect that you are an ADEPT which if they're really that strict should be grounds to pull you for additional testing, which would turn up the bioware. (If you're a BIO-ADEPT with MASKING then clearly you are a badass and do whatever you want anyway.)

I think in the end it had something to do with the French just being snooty about piercings and larger amounts of metal body modification; they're dandy with "natural" upgrades. Space France. Aesthetics. It's not really about safety or sanity. (SR Europe is nearly as unrealistic as the NAN, if you pay attention.)

By 2070+ they will have machines that can detect if you have even a small amount of metal or cyber in your body, and I am sure they will also have similar ways of detecting bioware.

I think bioware scanners were intended, but got lost between the shifting release schedules of Arsenal and Augmentation. As a result, bioware scanning requires hospital-level facilities and takes hours.

After all, a full list of things that reduce essence:
Ware
Burnout level addiction
HMHVV
Serious Injury (optional rule)

Essence loss from living in a pollution-rich environment should probably be in that list. And it's probably one of the most common causes of Essence loss.

[KCKitsune]

Wait a second... isn't there enough LEGAL bioware/cyberware that getting stopped at the airport is unrealistic?

[Yerameyahu]

Essence loss from living in a pollution-rich environment should probably be in that list.

That's what I was thinking. The fluff implies that nearly any significant, long-term strain can do it; it's probably wrong to assume that most people are going around with a mystic '6' on their foreheads.

KCKitsune, sure, but I thought we were specifically talking about France, in the context of 'they don't like any augmentation'.

[sabs]

That's what I was thinking. The fluff implies that nearly any significant, long-term strain can do it; it's probably wrong to assume that most people are going around with a mystic '6' on their foreheads.

KCKitsune, sure, but I thought we were specifically talking about France, in the context of 'they don't like any augmentation'.

I wish the shadowrun writers would just stop writing about the Francophone countries. They really have 0 handle on the culture

[sabs]

How large an airport? I would say two, both specializing in Conjuring? But I don't know what size of airport we're talking about.

not per airport.. i mean in the world

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Big difference between buying 1 and 6 ranks in a skill, Brazilian Shinobi. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes, I know, my character is fresh mint, played just 3 runs so far and started with dodge 5 (ranged specialization) and perception 5 (scent specialization). I couldn't afford Assensing 4 right from the start, so, jut got one point to be trained on it and will be raising it as soon as possible (gotta raise my magic to 7 first though).
But getting back on topic, yes. Adepts usually get the short stick on character advancement. As a friend of mine usually says: awakened has almost zero use for money, except to pay for lifestyle and the eventual foci or bonding material, etc. They just evolve with karma. Everyone else benefits both from karma AND money.
And in this case, the adept gets the shortest of all. Needing to spend 5 x next Magic's level to gain a whole new PP. (At least, my jaguar increases his regeneration when I spend karma on magic).

[Ascalaphus]

I wish the shadowrun writers would just stop writing about the Francophone countries. They really have 0 handle on the culture

Yeah, in my experience the French actually do like high-tech, but it has to be designed to be aesthetically pleasing. So no hulking cyber-monstrosities, but a gilette could fit right in.

[sabs]

Yeah, in my experience the French actually do like high-tech, but it has to be designed to be aesthetically pleasing. So no hulking cyber-monstrosities, but a gilette could fit right in.

It's like the idiot who wrote up Quebec.
And I could totally see the French Haute Couture going with biosculpting, nanotatoos, and chrome-chic.

[Shinobi Killfist]

It's like the idiot who wrote up Quebec.
And I could totally see the French Haute Couture going with biosculpting, nanotatoos, and chrome-chic.

It isn't like they are particularly accurate for any of the cultures, I think it is more of a outsiders stereotype ideas for well everybody is the SR reality thing. They aren't really picking on just one group here. The idea is fairly consistent, pick a stereotype and magnify it or play with it for a 70 years in a dystopean future feel. For the bias against cyber they may have played with the bias ideas that crops up in any culture and then looked at how genetically engineered food is treated in France(last time I checked it was evil) and rolled with it.

[sabs]

It isn't like they are particularly accurate for any of the cultures, I think it is more of a outsiders stereotype ideas for well everybody is the SR reality thing. They aren't really picking on just one group here. The idea is fairly consistent, pick a stereotype and magnify it or play with it for a 70 years in a dystopean future feel. For the bias against cyber they may have played with the bias ideas that crops up in any culture and then looked at how genetically engineered food is treated in France(last time I checked it was evil) and rolled with it.

It's FOOD that's like asking how people in Kentucky would feel about Genetically modified Horses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

It's FOOD that's like asking how people in Kentucky would feel about Genetically modified Horses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

How would they, by the way?
I for one, think that a genetically modified horse to be stronger and faster would be preety cool in my opinion.

[Shinobi Killfist]

How would they, by the way?
I for one, think that a genetically modified horse to be stronger and faster would be preety cool in my opinion.

Well since one of the biggest horse races if not biggest is held there they would be against it like steroids in pro athletes. Which is his point about food, since it is important to the french. All of which is irrelevant, They are not trying to create accurate pictures of France in 2070. They are grabbing things from today and trying to make interesting story hooks from those ideas twisted into SR concepts. So France is against genetically engineered food, it be evil. And while they may be correct about it, it was a very Luddite outcry against it. It wasn't I am worried about long term health costs, it was I don't want to turn into a Frankenstein monster. So grab the fear of genetic mods, drop the food, implant it onto people bang you have a cool story hook for France in 2070 SR world.

[Yerameyahu]

But all pro athletes *do* use steroids. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[TommyTwoToes]

It's FOOD that's like asking how people in Kentucky would feel about Genetically modified Horses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If we're talking about Kentucky, wouldn't it be gene-modded chickens?

[sabs]

If we're talking about Kentucky, wouldn't it be gene-modded chickens?

We already have Gene Modded chickens (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ever eat a Purdue Chicken?

And Horse Racing doesn't allow drugs, they're not gonna be allowing augmentations and genetherapy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I mean, they don't 'allow' drugs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Just like the Tour de France.

[sabs]

And they test for it. It just goes to show that for every test, there's people who try to get around them.

But Derby Purists are going to consider 'Genetic Modified" horses to not be 'fair' and they will disallow them from competing. It'll be a huge issue (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) and there will be genetic testing to make sure the horse doesn't have the tell-tale signs of modification.

Genetic modification through Breeding Programs is okay.
Genetic Modification by directly manually altering the genetic markers.. not okay.

Breeding is /huge/ business, and Sperm from certain studs can go for thousands of dollars a vial.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, it's funny the double-standard we have for different versions of the exact same process: gene modification.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Genetic modification through Breeding Programs is okay.
Genetic Modification by directly manually altering the genetic markers.. not okay.

Breeding is /huge/ business, and Sperm from certain studs can go for thousands of dollars a vial.

Which doesn't make sense to any capitalist. Why have all the trouble of making a bred program that will give you profit somewhere dozens of generations of horses in the future when you can just create one in a lab and get it the way you want it now?

[Irion]

I would not call it a double standard in this aspect.
Genetik manipulation beyond breeding could turn out to be a big thread for the sport itself.
Thats not just some competition, there is a lot of tradition behind it. You could even say some kind of philosophie.
If you enter horses, which mature with 1.5, run like hell from 3 to 6 and die of multible organ failure with 10, well this would not be good.

[Doc Chase]

Which doesn't make sense to any capitalist. Why have all the trouble of making a bred program that will give you profit somewhere dozens of generations of horses in the future when you can just create one in a lab and get it the way you want it now?

Because you're paying for the rest of the bloodline as well. If you're getting a horse who's a direct descendant of Seabiscuit or War Admiral, you're paying for the power their names provide, and their genes have been proven. That's why winning horses are put out to stud. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Yeah, it's funny the double-standard we have for different versions of the exact same process: gene modification.

EXACTLY MY POINT.
By the way. What is all the fuss about the transgenic salmon that will be sold in U.S?

[Doc Chase]

EXACTLY MY POINT.
By the way. What is all the fuss about the transgenic salmon that will be sold in U.S?

People freak out about chimaeric food. They think it's going to contaiminate their precious bodily fluids.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Because you're paying for the rest of the bloodline as well. If you're getting a horse who's a direct descendant of Seabiscuit or War Admiral, you're paying for the power their names provide, and their genes have been proven. That's why winning horses are put out to stud. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And I think that sayin my horse was designed at Lab X would give a lot of power too if the lab is a class-A genetic engineering lab.

Of course we will have to agree on disagree here. I'm completely a pos-humanist and in this a completely post-life. If you can improve things, why not?

[Yerameyahu]

I like how they call it 'franken'-whatever, and then pretend like their article is 'fair and balanced'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I was talking about all GMOs, not just horses.

With horses, the answer is obvious: money, and control by the already-rich. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) As someone already mentioned.