Physical barriers make for short car chases Options

[kjones]

I'm envisioning the following scenario:

• Team is chased by baddies
• Mage drops physical barrier directly in front of enemy car
• Kaboom

Any reason why this won't work?

[Ghremdal]

The GM allows the driver a crash test to avoid the barrier, or the vehicle goes through the barrier like a car through a wooden house?

Really with 6 hits you get a barrier that has a consistency of a chain link fence. Now while the ramming rules are a bit silly, as a GM I would just say that the car goes through the barrier, no or little damage taken. Maybe forcing a crash test.

[Yerameyahu]

Depends on the barrier. Force 6 is only as good as Chain Link.

The Ramming rules *are* crap, though. You could rule that the vehicle takes full crash/ram damage if it hits *anything*, even a paper wall. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Summerstorm]

I agree. Has to be a insanely tough barrier to stop or even damage most vehicles. Also one may be able to avoid it if not timed perfectly.

[Yerameyahu]

But, you could probably cause a Crash Test, either by making them ram through, or by creating a ramp or something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kjones]

So, if you were to overcast at F12, then this would probably work... then again, you'd be resisting 9P drain. (And you'd need Magic 6.) And a F12 Powerbolt/Powerball would probably work just as well.

Thanks for the input.

[Summerstorm]

AAAND you have to get enough hits. You can cast it at force 20... with one hit it still is only a barrier rating 1 (glass)

[Yerameyahu]

How *do* you guys like to resolve Ramming/Barrier interactions? AFAIK, the rules don't really cover it. Normal Ramming damage as the DV vs. Barrier (i.e., same as Melee)? So breaking through a lightpost or chainlink fence with a sedan going full speed is 20 ramming (plus net hits?) vs. 16 double-armor; 15 boxes of damage against Structure 7, that's two square meters (seems like plenty, but would 1 square meter have been big enough?). The sedan clears the barrier, but takes 10 DV from the ram (5 boxes of damage). :/ That might be too much damage for chain link, but that's probably more the fault of chain link's too-high barrier rating. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Malbur]

However, I think Mythbusters did an episode where they looked at what happens to a car when it goes through a chainlink fence. Initially it looked like it would work after hitting the fence but actually it caused such damage that that simply wasn't the truth. What cars will be like in the future however, I'm not sure.

Also, even if the car could still move, it would definitely be slowed down allowing the pursuing car a chance to catch up some lost ground, perhaps even getting close enough to effectively end it by being in range of tossing a grenade in the window. For a less lethal method, tear gas?

[Summerstorm]

Hm good question... let us think about that:

In the real world (yeah,yeah i know) a normal car would have little problem breaking through 10 cm standard structural material (12 armor / 11 structure), but would likely sustain heavy damage, maybe to the point of full damage.

A standard car has maybe 10 body and 6 armor.

On the other hand, a small tank or APV (16 body, 14-20 armor) should break the same barrier while sustaining no damage at all.
And more massive targets should be impenetrable to all kinds of vehicles (save kamikaze- attacks at ultra-high speeds)

So let's see standard ramming at "I want to live" speeds (under 100) does normaly double damage, which is enough. But breaking through at under 60 should be possible too: so 10 damage. That is too low. I assume counting a ramming vehicle as armor piercing is maybe appropiate. Maybe applying a DV modifier (double... like explosives)

So what damage should WE get? Half of it as ramming vehicle of course. BUT if we break through something not having enough mass, we shouldn't get any damage. Lets us say: If destroyed structure < Our body + Armor, we get no damage. IF it was higher, we can assume we rammed something which had enough mass to slow us down (and damage our vehicle). We get say... Half of standard DV (not doubled). That would be in most cases either 5 or 10 damage, resisted. Maybe too low.

Hm, have to calculate and try a bit... will be back.

[Draco18s]

What happens when a "tank" moving at 100 mph hits a "chain link fence" (or weaker) magical barrier:

Obviously the tank takes very little damage, despite its high body and high speed, so the normal ramming rules Make No Sense.

What we do know that an object A with mass a hitting stationary, immovable object B at velocity V has a force denoted as such:

F = 1/2 aV^2 (source)

Thus we know the force imparted: F.

F is typically what is used in ShadowRun as the damage against the rammed target (stationary object B). We also know that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The higher mass object imparts more momentum to the lower mass object than the lower mass object imparts to the higher mass object. Therefore:

F = 1/2bV^2!

Here's an example of what this might look like.

So in dealing with low mass physical barriers the damage imparted by them to the moving vehicle should be based on its Structure rating. A glass wall (Structure 1) won't stop a car driving through it at all (it shatters!). A structure rating of 6 might slow it down (chain link fence?) and a structure of 12 (10cm of concrete) should stop it in its tracks.

This can even be extended to crashes between two vehicles, rather than the rammer taking damage equal to its body, it takes damage equal to the target's body. And this stops nonsense like the Murdercycle taking out semi-trucks without damage.

[KarmaInferno]

This is why you don't make a simple roadblock.

You make a ramp such that it causes the vehicle to vault off the freeway or a least flip over. Or maybe an angled wall forcing them off the road into an actual barrier.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




-k

[Summerstorm]

This can even be extended to crashes between two vehicles, rather than the rammer taking damage equal to its body, it takes damage equal to the target's body. And this stops nonsense like the Murdercycle taking out semi-trucks without damage.

Thought about that too. Now we have to have a nice, fast way to convert Armor/Structure ratings into a body score, to determine the damage dealt by ramming that stuff. Maybe ignore armor (it already account to being breakable or not) and say Structre/2 = body for ramming? Makes a thin brick wall ~5, a normal one 10. and a bunker pretty much unbreakable (Body 340). Of course it should be capped (body 320 is of course ridiculous). Maybe on Structure(10cm) *2 max?

EDIT: Ach, forget it all... it doesn't work. Have to find another way... hm...

[jakephillips]

That is not the problem think about a physical barrier cast about about chest high as a motercycle rider hits it at 70 miles an hour.
Adrian Taylor

[Draco18s]

That is not the problem think about a physical barrier cast about about chest high as a motercycle rider hits it at 70 miles an hour.
Adrian Taylor

I'm seeing a motorcycle that drives right through it. The barrier doesn't actually effect the motorcycle enough to stop and throw the rider.

[Yerameyahu]

He means the barrier hits only the rider.

Depends on the GM. The rules don't strictly cover that kind of thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Funny, though.

[CanRay]

Hmmmmmm, I think I'll have to work on a spell that makes said barrier wire-thin. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I think the less monowire in the game, the better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dumori]

Depends on the barrier. Force 6 is only as good as Chain Link.

The Ramming rules *are* crap, though. You could rule that the vehicle takes full crash/ram damage if it hits *anything*, even a paper wall. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh damn a fly!

[Dumori]

I think the less monowire in the game, the better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Grabs pink spray paint. Your views need converting.

[Christian Lafay]

I think the less monowire in the game, the better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Grabs pink spray paint. Your views need converting.

Agreed. Nothing wrong with monowire. Unless of course one end is tide to a lamp post and the the other end is tied to something like a garbage can that has been filled with rocks and then welded shut with the wire taught across a road to stop a fast moving transport. Still never allowed to use that trick again, grumble grumble grumble.

[Dumori]

Agreed. Nothing wrong with monowire. Unless of course one end is tide to a lamp post and the the other end is tied to something like a garbage can that has been filled with rocks and then welded shut with the wire taught across a road to stop a fast moving transport. Still never allowed to use that trick again, grumble grumble grumble.

Oh monowire how you are awesomely handy. The only issue is the price and even then its not too bad.

[CanRay]

Monowire is another way to solve problems. Along with duct tape and explosives.

[Dumori]

Monowire is another way to solve problems. Along with duct tape and explosives.

Add all three and an ork and you're fucked ;P

[Christian Lafay]

Add all three and an ork and you're fucked ;P

So we need a ork packing a grenade launching monowire weed-whacker held together with duct tape and dreams.... HELLO NEW CHARACTER CONCEPT!