"Control Thoughts" Spell? Options

[Mäx]

Even with a dice pool of 18 only half the time you get 6 or more hits.

Huh, with 18 dice on avarage you get 6 successes every single time.

[Doc Chase]

Not every single. It's true that 6 successes is going to be the average, but it's by no means a guarantee.

[toturi]

I was actually thinking of using a sustained mana spell to leave a trail through the Astral to the location, not leave the spell somewhere and track the trail back.

More like walking around "painting" a trail with the mana as opposed to dropping a ball and having a string attached to it.

OK, then. By the rules, how is this supposed to be accomplished? Where does it say that a sustained spell leaves an astral trail? The link is between you and your active spell, IIRC, there is no specific rule that allows for what you are suggesting. I can't really think of any way to do that unless you keep casting a spell every so often to leave an astral signature.

[Dakka Dakka]

You cast a sustained spell at a target on the desired location, then you find your way back to your body and retrace your steps while astrally perceiving. This ariadne's thread works in both ways though. You could also just leave a spirit there,k then you don't have the problem of finding a suitable spell.

[Yerameyahu]

What exactly is the problem being solved here? Use a MapSoft. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Neraph]

All you mage character have power foci 6, or did you mean only in specifig categories of spells?

It's not that hard if you apply yourself.

Where does it say that a sustained spell leaves an astral trail?

It is occasionally possible to see the traces that magic spells leave beind in a target's aura; see Astral Signatures for more information.

Apparently I've always missed that underlined part there. Oh, and underlined emphasis mine.

It's never come up in my games, but that's still good information to know. Thinking it how I thought it made cleaning the signature of sustained spells seem... strange.

[Mäx]

It's not that hard if you apply yourself.

Care to elaborate?
I can get 20+ dice for one category or 18 to 3 categories at chargen, but you cant get 18+ for all categories.

[Karoline]

Yeah, would really suck for mages if their sustained spells left trails like that. They'd have to walk back through any facility they broke into and erase their improved invisibility or whatever else trail.

What you can do though is either have another corp mage use the tracking mage's signature to track them (Which can be done in the meat, just need to precieve), or have the tracking mage cast a spell at every corner they take and have the second mage lead a team based on the markers. Second method would be quicker, but more prone to missing turns.

[Neraph]

Care to elaborate?
I can get 20+ dice for one category or 18 to 3 categories at chargen, but you cant get 18+ for all categories.

Most simply (and I'd do it differently and more effectively myself):
Magic 6
Spellcasting 6
F6 Bound Spirit's Aid Spellcasting

With a Charisma of 5 you can have one spirit bound per spirit type. Slightly in-game you can Long Term Bind them to Aid Spellcasting - barring that you can just keep re-binding. Heck, after that you can add a Power Focus R2, still in chargen, and end with 20 dice to all spellcasting. With Mentor and Specialization you can get 24 in one school. If you go for Spellcasting Foci instead of Power (and stack up the foci) you can get one extra die in each "school."

So, in essence, it's actually quite easy to get 21 dice for all categories, and up to 25 for one.

Heck, and that's before factoring in things like the Infected (normal Essence Drain allows for a starting Magic of 8, meaning an extra 2 dice to the aforementioned Test, and Nosferatu have a yeild of 11, meaning an extra five dice above the 21-25 stated) and Magic Pacts (which are, in theory, infinite. It's altogether possible [not saying that it'd ever see gameplay, just possible in the realm of theory] to have a F30 spirit with only a 1 Edge. That's 5 BP/10 Karma to have +15 magic once per day. In theory. More realistically, 15 BP/30 Karma for +3 [F6 Spirit] 1/day).

And I have more tricks than that.

[Karoline]

Heck, and that's before factoring in things like the Infected (normal Essence Drain allows for a starting Magic of 8

Infected have a starting essence of 5, so they're going to have a maximum starting magic of 5. They don't get to pull an essence drain before play starts.

[Neraph]

Infected have a starting essence of 5, so they're going to have a maximum starting magic of 5. They don't get to pull an essence drain before play starts.

Ok. And the opening scene is me either:
1) Hooker Jumping, taking 1 Essence from each so none die.
2) Homeless Jumping, killing the SINless off to feed my hunger.

So chargen + 30 seconds or less of in-game I'm at Magic 8 or Magic 11, depending on strain.

Otherwise it's 1 die less than what I've stated, which is still higher than he though I could get.

Seriously, the littlest mistype around here gets you crucified.

[Mäx]

Most simply (and I'd do it differently and more effectively myself):
Magic 6
Spellcasting 6
F6 Bound Spirit's Aid Spellcasting

Totally forgot about aid spellcasting, but that does limit you to force 6 spells.

[Neraph]

You say "limit," I hear "Edge."

EDIT: Which, incidentally, would also either (admittedly very infrequently):
1) Increase the original dicepool by adding directly to it.
2) Reroll failed successes, which very well may give you more successes than #1.

[Mäx]

You say "limit," I hear "Edge."

Well that allows more successes, but still doesn't let you cast spells over force 6, just saying for those times where the force matters.

[Karoline]

Ok. And the opening scene is me either:
1) Hooker Jumping, taking 1 Essence from each so none die.
2) Homeless Jumping, killing the SINless off to feed my hunger.

So chargen + 30 seconds or less of in-game I'm at Magic 8 or Magic 11, depending on strain.

Otherwise it's 1 die less than what I've stated, which is still higher than he though I could get.

Seriously, the littlest mistype around here gets you crucified.

It's too bad that magic doesn't change directly with essence increases, isn't it? I don't care how much you increase your essence, your magic will remain where it was, unless you're also saying that you start play with enough karma to raise your magic from 5 to 11.

Now, you could increase your essence, and then burn it to temporarily increase your magic, but that doesn't sound like what you're suggesting at all.

[Neraph]

Eh, and we were talking about high dicepool, not high dicepool and high Force.

You can have two of the following: Cheap, Good, and Fast. I gave you Fast and Good. If an Infected using the same or similar methods sees any actual game time to get Essence up it improves dramatically.

It also really, really depends on your table. If all spirits over F4 use Edge to resist summoning (like on some tables) then that's going to change things - subtly, if nothing else. If, on the other hand, your GM would allow you to get a Magic Pact with a F40 Spirit for 5 BP, you can seriously, seriously abuse that.

And yes, no GM in their right (or left) mind would allow a 5 BP Magic Pact with a F40 spirit. Just as an example of the two different extremes of leniency.

EDIT: Heck, getting a Nosferatu to his Magic 11 (Magic 5 Essence Drain 6, admittedly does require some gameplay) and with an Aptitude Spellcasting of 7 gets you your 18 dicepool right there. Then we can tack on some of those other dicepool bonuses.

[Karoline]

It also really, really depends on your table. If all spirits over F4 use Edge to resist summoning (like on some tables) then that's going to change things - subtly, if nothing else. If, on the other hand, your GM would allow you to get a Magic Pact with a F40 Spirit for 5 BP, you can seriously, seriously abuse that.

And yes, no GM in their right (or left) mind would allow a 5 BP Magic Pact with a F40 spirit. Just as an example of the two different extremes of leniency.

Especially since each level of the pack is a point of edge for the spirit, and for all (non-PC, PC are debated hotly) spirits, edge=force.

EDIT: Heck, getting a Nosferatu to his Magic 11 (Magic 5 Essence Drain 6, admittedly does require some gameplay) and with an Aptitude Spellcasting of 7 gets you your 18 dicepool right there. Then we can tack on some of those other dicepool bonuses.

Well sure, given 30+35+40+45+50+55= 255 karma I'm sure any mage could be a badass, infected or not.

[Neraph]

Especially since each level of the pack is a point of edge for the spirit, and for all (non-PC, PC are debated hotly) spirits, edge=force.


Well sure, given 30+35+40+45+50+55= 255 karma I'm sure any mage could be a badass, infected or not.

1) Uhh... Free Spirits have an Edge based on a Test, which means, since it's random, it's theoretically possible for there to be a Force 10,000 spirit with an Edge of 1. Like he needs any Edge at that point.

2) Are you meaning that their Essence Drain power gives them effectively 255 karma? Or do you not know how Essence Drain works? In the former, I agree it's amazing. In the latter, please read your books.

[Karoline]

1) Uhh... Free Spirits have an Edge based on a Test, which means, since it's random, it's theoretically possible for there to be a Force 10,000 spirit with an Edge of 1. Like he needs any Edge at that point.

Really? I've never noticed this rule. I could have overlooked it, as free spirits aren't my best subject.

2) Are you meaning that their Essence Drain power gives them effectively 255 karma? Or do you not know how Essence Drain works? In the former, I agree it's amazing. In the latter, please read your books.

No, I'm meaning that essence drain doesn't increase your magic. You're the one that needs to read your books.

Edit: Ah, you are right about the free spirits, though by the nature of the test, it becomes increasingly unlikely for the spirit to have 1 edge as their force goes up.

[Irion]

This reminds me, why no GM in his or her right mind would allow infected.
First of all the rules are broken
Second every player wants to have the benifits but they will start crying if the drawback come up. (like getting killed, when entering a AAA district)

Back to the bottom line:
You can't say much about balance, because every group has their own "context" of the rules.
While in the first group a Powerfocus 4 is never to be seen, it is regularly uses in the second group.

[Dahrken]

No, I'm meaning that essence drain doesn't increase your magic. You're the one that needs to read your books.

You can use some of the Essence drained to boost your Attributes. AFB for the moment so I can't check if you can do that to temporarily boost your Magic.

[sabs]

If pressed, a critter that has drained Essence within the past hour
can siphon the stolen life force into other attributes, including (and
often especially) Magic.

SR4A P295

so yes, you can boost your magic, for 12 hours, once every month if you're a regular essence draining critter, or once every 6 months if you're a nosferatu.

[Yerameyahu]

It's a pretty limited effect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Thank god.

[sabs]

So I have a question.

I'm a Vampire.

I was at essence 11, and I drained 1 point of essence from my sleaze du jour.

How many points can I spend to raise attributes?

[Mäx]

so yes, you can boost your magic, for 12 hours, once every month if you're a regular essence draining critter, or once every 6 months if you're a nosferatu.

Nothink stops you from draining essence every 12h to permanetly keep your magic boosted, well not in the rules anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)