Oni BP Options

[Reg06]

Is there any sort of errata for the metavariant BP costs? Or even an explanation as to why Oni are 5 BP more than Ogres or baseline Orks?

[Summerstorm]

Hm... because they are badass?

[Dumori]

They be rarer full stop that it. They even have negatives over orks too. That's the offical line. Also errata pfft like they get relased or updated any time regularly. Maybe if they need to reprint a book.

[Reg06]

Sweet. I love the flavor tax.

[Dumori]

You do. I think you are the first ever DSer to post in agreement. Seeing as they gain nothing bar distitive style a negative that can be quite crippleing.

[Reg06]

A negative quality that makes them stand out, as well as large, obtrusive horns and additional bulk that makes them even harder to hide. Yay.

[Glyph]

And as I've said before, you can't really call it a rarity tax, because there are other equally rare/freaky-looking metavariants that are good bargains, such as wakyambi, satyrs, etc.

Maybe they put in some metatypes for us min-maxers, and others for the "role-playing, not roll-playing" crowd, so not only could they get to play an angsty oppressed ork metavariant or a neo-luddite nature lover elf metatype, but they could also have the additional joy of paying extra for it, so they can point out how non-optimized their character is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Dumori]

A negative quality that makes them stand out, as well as large, obtrusive horns and additional bulk that makes them even harder to hide. Yay.

Quite right for +5 bp. If you to a BP annayalise of all the metas and verients this is a small issue Fomori are like half price atleast being ubertrolls.

[Summerstorm]

Also they look fierce and intimidating... Ok... maybe they get no dice for it... but fuck it.

Hm on the point of variants: Yeah... the whole thing is a bit weird: No fixed stats (but the metagenic ones), Night Ones and Fomori changed from SR3... It somehow feels a bit... weird.

[Dumori]

Also they look fierce and intimidating... Ok... maybe they get no dice for it... but fuck it.

Hm on the point of variants: Yeah... the whole thing is a bit weird: No fixed stats (but the metagenic ones), Night Ones and Fomori changed from SR3... It somehow feels a bit... weird.

I'd give them siutational modifrers like the ones trolls get for lookign scary. They just don't get more dice as there race but tabel in the books have such mods. Some things can just get them easyer.

[naga-nuyen]

um if you look in the list at the end of the runner's companion you will find a list of Meta variants that also have the Oni points at 20.... i saw something in and older post that it was the intended cost! Just food for thought though since it is two diffrent places has diffrent costs in the same book Guess we will find out when the Tables come out in the runners kit

Ork------------------- 20------------------ p. 72, SR4
Hobgoblin---------- 20------------------ p. 72
Ogre----------------- 20------------------ p. 72
Oni------------------- 20------------------ p. 72

Page 181 in RC

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You do. I think you are the first ever DSer to post in agreement. Seeing as they gain nothing bar distitive style a negative that can be quite crippleing.

Well, then You must have missed my support of the Oni...
I have no issues with them, and love the Flavor text as well... I have YET to find it crippling in the least...

[Medicineman]

If you don't like the rarity Tax
make your Oni via Surge.
It saves you some points.
I made me a male Dryad ,saved 5 Points and got Astral sense in addition (good thing for an Adept,saved Me a ki point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

With a Bargaindance
Medicineman

[Dumori]

If you don't like the rarity Tax
make your Oni via Surge.
It saves you some points.
I made me a male Dryad ,saved 5 Points and got Astral sense in addition (good thing for an Adept,saved Me a ki point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

With a Bargaindance
Medicineman

This is why I dislike the Metaveriants costing more you can do the same better.

[Apathy]

Has anyone come up with defensible value-based costs for the different metas, factoring in things like attribute boosts and detriments, special abilities, and prejudice?

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Has anyone come up with defensible value-based costs for the different metas, factoring in things like attribute boosts and detriments, special abilities, and prejudice?

I treat the meta-variants as SURGE for the BP cost, this way, some variants will cost lower, and some will increase A LOT (fomori I'm looking at you).

[pbangarth]

Given that so many (all?) of the metavariants are representations of beings from various cultural mythologies, isn't it possible that they are present to provide an array of cultural icons to play, translated as well as the writers could into SR mechanics, rather than a roster of 'equal' opponents?

[Apathy]

Given that so many (all?) of the metavariants are representations of beings from various cultural mythologies, isn't it possible that they are present to provide an array of cultural icons to play, translated as well as the writers could into SR mechanics, rather than a roster of 'equal' opponents?

To each their own. I understand your opinion, but don't share it.

My personal preference is that players not feel prodded into making particular role-playing decisions just to keep their characters from sucking. If I had a player who wanted to be a free spirit, or a Loup Garou, he will quickly find that by RAW he'll be a liability to the team regardless of the subsequent choices he makes, because those meta-races are so FUBAR. We could argue that spirits and infected shouldn't be allowed as playable races at all, but if they are listed as playable, they should be reasonably functional as well.

Just my opinion, and as always YMMV.

[pbangarth]

To each their own. I understand your opinion, but don't share it.

It's not actually an opinion, but rather a hypothesis I'm putting out for discussion.

My personal preference is that players not feel prodded into making particular role-playing decisions just to keep their characters from sucking.

I understand your point, and in general agree. I get the sense from the discussion here that the Oni are out about 5 BP. Does that constitute 'sucking'?

If I had a player who wanted to be a free spirit, or a Loup Garou, he will quickly find that by RAW he'll be a liability to the team regardless of the subsequent choices he makes, because those meta-races are so FUBAR. We could argue that spirits and infected shouldn't be allowed as playable races at all, but if they are listed as playable, they should be reasonably functional as well.

See HERE for an ongoing exploration of what others seem to think is a viable Free Spirit PC.

[Dumori]

To each their own. I understand your opinion, but don't share it.

My personal preference is that players not feel prodded into making particular role-playing decisions just to keep their characters from sucking. If I had a player who wanted to be a free spirit, or a Loup Garou, he will quickly find that by RAW he'll be a liability to the team regardless of the subsequent choices he makes, because those meta-races are so FUBAR. We could argue that spirits and infected shouldn't be allowed as playable races at all, but if they are listed as playable, they should be reasonably functional as well.

Just my opinion, and as always YMMV.

Free psirts are SO hard to kill and keep dead that then can be a little bullet spounge if need be I'm sure bing in the metaplane for soem time is better than haveing a TPK.

[Doc Chase]

Free psirts are SO hard to kill and keep dead that then can be a little bullet spounge if need be I'm sure bing in the metaplane for soem time is better than haveing a TPK.

For the duration of the run? Eeh. Not feelin' it.

[naga-nuyen]

I still think that Free spirit as written is a playable option, week from the get go (they were just born) but have the option of gaining power long past any other PC even magicians. Quick point of this is that they have no actual stat max, if they initiate it keeps going up as long as you adventure to gain Karma. So what that you are not super PC from the start…that is where roleplaying should be the main focus…develop the world around the runners, light action.

[Dumori]

I still think that Free spirit as written is a playable option, week from the get go (they were just born) but have the option of gaining power long past any other PC even magicians. Quick point of this is that they have no actual stat max, if they initiate it keeps going up as long as you adventure to gain Karma. So what that you are not super PC from the start…that is where roleplaying should be the main focus…develop the world around the runners, light action.

My fave PC was a free spirt face in a 350 bp game. was a real hard build to make but was so much fun to grow in power buy buying karma and such.

[Apathy]

I understand your point, and in general agree. I get the sense from the discussion here that the Oni are out about 5 BP. Does that constitute 'sucking'?

No, I don't have a problem with a 5bp variance, but some of the other meta-races are significantly poorer. From a theoretical, idealistic perspective, if value-based pricing and equivalent opportunities are good things, why shouldn't they be applied to all the races?

[Mongoose]

For the duration of the run? Eeh. Not feelin' it.

I believe an Initiated mage can make a quest to bring a disrupted spirit back from the metaplanes. Probably learn the spirit's Name in the process, but that's something a free spirit PC would likely have to deal with sooner rather than later.