Type O system Adept, Always thought this was a bad concept but now not so much? Options

[naga-nuyen]

Okay, I like to make NPC/ possible PC's. I want to create all sorts so I can learn both what can be made and what should not be allowed if/when I GM. Following these lines I have always thought Type O system is not worth the bang for the BP. But after sitting down and taking the longer view on a potential NPC/PC i found that this idea had merit. For now he is stacked with level 2 Muscle toner and augmentation, EA, Synthcardium level 3, and I threw in a Genetic optimization (for that magic future 11 in agility). As an adept he is using Geas optional rules (if allowed, if not then drop the walk) to get Improved Reflexes at level 3 (3pp or 4pp), enhanced Attribute [reaction] (.75pp), sustenance (.25) and traceless walk (1pp).

Now funny thing is that after looking at all that fancy basic Bioware, this NPC/PC could take every piece in 4Ea Book (Except cat's eyes, Suprathyroid, and Skin pocket) for a total of 5.65 Essence loss. All he needs to do is initiate 5 times and raise his magic attribute 5 times and he retains all his Adept powers.....talk about a true Augmentation Addict (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Now of course he would need a banging back story, and round out his skills (mostly starting as a sniper with high athletic and stealth skills) but kind of funny what the Type O system can do for an Adept over the long term!

With Optimization it comes out to 5.95 cost, which is scary to consider him an Adpet.

[Jaid]

did you account for the fact that type O doesn't help with all bioware, only the non-cultured stuff?

[Doc Chase]

Aw, come on. With that kind of Essence score, that's the only culture he's got.

[naga-nuyen]

Yeah only used the "Basic" chart from 4Ea lol, it is insane he is like a walking Bio poster child when and if he gets all the funds for the operations. Figuring that he would have to do adventures to get said money then he should have enough Karma to raise magic and initiate enough....but that may slow it down, thus Elf race to give him the life span (yes this will never really come up in game time) so he can get everything his little Addictive ass wants.

[Godwyn]

Its viable, but as far as effectiveness look at what he actually has. The BP/karma cost, as the character had to have high enough magic that all the 'ware didn't drop him to 0, is mostly wasted. Asides from the traceless walk, which is your drop if necessary power, over what could have been done with other 'ware the character has gained. . .sustenance.

Considering it is over 70BP spent on magic and qualities just at chargen, it seems a bit lackluster as far as min/max goes. But if done simply for the bioadept approach, seems effective enough, and would make for a memorable encounter as an npc. Mage assenses. GM, "Awakened and has X, Y, and Z implants." Mage, "what"?

[Tyro]

did you account for the fact that type O doesn't help with all bioware, only the non-cultured stuff?

A common erroneous assumption. It's been clarified many times that "basic" is meant in the sense that it's not alpha, beta, or delta. It's one of the few things the FAQ got right, and has been confirmed elsewhere.

[Yerameyahu]

It's their own fault for using the word 'basic' twice in overlapping circumstances.

[naga-nuyen]

The more and more I add into this nut ball I really like him. He is not a mini maxi guy, just someone that was born with one talent and has an addiction that trashes that gift. I would so play him, if I had a group, and I put more work into making him a rounded PC with background and not one dimension of I want implant now! Also originally I have him at a 500BP build, so he has some great Die pools in stealth, athletics, longarms, but this is a 400BP:

400BP
Race: elf [30BP]
Attributes: Score:
Body: 5 [40BP]
Agility: 6 (8 ) [40BP]
Reaction: 5 (9) [40BP]
Strength: 2 (4) [10BP]
Charisma: 3 [0BP]
Intuition: 5 [40BP]
Logic: 2 [10BP]
Willpower: 3 [20BP]
Essence: 5.2
Magic: 4/5 [40BP]
Edge: 1 [0BP]

Positive Qualities:
Adept [-5BP]
Type O system [-30BP]
Negative Qualities:
Sensitive system [+15BP]
Spirit Bane (Guidance) these spirits become angered by this adept that strays so far from his path [+10BP]

Augmentation addict [+10BP]

Optional Rule:Geas: (Needs to take qualifying action)
(this is using advance rules were Geas is linked to one power (Improved reflexes) and gains this power at .25 reduction)

Active Skills:
Pistols: 1 [4BP]
Automatics : 1 [4BP]
Long-arms(Sniper rifle) : 4 [18BP]
Blades (Swords) :1 [6BP]
Athletics skill group (rank 1) [10BP]
Stealth skill group (rank 4) [40BP]
Perception:2 [8BP]

Adept Powers: power points: 4
Improved Reflexes level 3 (cost 3 points)
Improved Attribute (Reaction) level 1 (.75 cost)
Sustenance (.25)

Augmentations Bio-ware: (1.3) (.65)
Muscle Toner (Bio ware) level 2 (ESS .1; cost: 16,000¥ +2 to agility)
Muscle Augmentation (Bio ware) level 2 (ESS .1; cost: 15,000¥ +2 to strength)
Enhanced Articulation (Bio-ware) (ESS: .15; cost:: 40,000¥ +1 Die pool to any physical skill linked to physical attribute
Synthacardium (Bio ware) level 3 (ESS .15; cost: 30,000¥ +3 to athletic tests)


BP: 40
Gear: (37,233¥) Add 1,000 from ware: BP: 9
Contacts: BP: 11
Cyber: (101,000¥) BP: 20

Edit: due to the fact I can't read, I have learned that you take the Geas quality as an optional rule you gain no BP from it. So I change that negetive quality with Spirit Bane.

[naga-nuyen]

Darn double post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

It's their own fault for using the word 'basic' twice in overlapping circumstances.

Especially since the word they should have used is 'Standard'.





-k

[jakephillips]

Strange but might be good for an npc

[Glyph]

A common erroneous assumption. It's been clarified many times that "basic" is meant in the sense that it's not alpha, beta, or delta. It's one of the few things the FAQ got right, and has been confirmed elsewhere.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif)

Considering that bioware is divided into "basic" and "cultured", it would take more than an FAQ that you admit is full of errors to convince me that they meant "standard" when they typed "basic". Especially preceded by "Off the rack", which cultured bioware definitely isn't (since it has to be tailor-made for the intended recipient).

[Tyro]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif)

Considering that bioware is divided into "basic" and "cultured", it would take more than an FAQ that you admit is full of errors to convince me that they meant "standard" when they typed "basic". Especially preceded by "Off the rack", which cultured bioware definitely isn't (since it has to be tailor-made for the intended recipient).

Consider the fact that you can get cultured bio in deltaware.

[Saint Sithney]

Augmentation does say
"Only basic bioware can be found second-hand—alpha or better grade
and cultured bioware are by definition protein-matched and
cannot be implanted in another body."

which is internally consistent, even if the term "basic bioware" isn't used anywhere else.

Still, there's no reason why cultured bioware should come in grades if genetic markers are the basis of compatibility.
Or, at least, a Type-O person should be able to get 2nd hand delta-grade implants with no difficulty.

[Mäx]

A common erroneous assumption. It's been clarified many times that "basic" is meant in the sense that it's not alpha, beta, or delta. It's one of the few things the FAQ got right, and has been confirmed elsewhere.

You must be reading a completely different FAQ then the rest of us, as the FAQ says nothing about Type O.
The fact that cultured bioware is available in grades just like basic, has nothing to do with the fact that Type O only works with basic bioware.

[Marcus]

Looks fine to me. If your opting to go blades though is there a reason your skipping foci? Or just lacking the resources to make that happen?

[naga-nuyen]

Never even crossed my mind lol, but um yeah I ran out of money seems like the least retarded response (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Whipstitch]

Consider the fact that you can get cultured bio in deltaware.

I don't really see your point. Having it be cultured from your own cells may be a huge gigantic advantage when getting, say, muscle toners but it may be a bare minimum requirement when they're mucking about with your nervous system. For all we know cultured 'ware requires incredibly precise mapping neuron by neuron to hit Delta. The brain is after all plastic, so putting in a bit of tissue that is geared to mold itself to your brain rather than forcing your brain to adapt to new neurons talking all at once may make all the difference in the world.

[Makki]

Geas: (Needs to take qualifying action) [+10BP]
(this is using advance rules were Geas is linked to one power (Improved reflexes) and gains this power at .25 reduction)
Improved Reflexes level 3 (cost 3 points)

if these use the same geas, then, as your break it, you lose Improved Reflexes AND an additional point of magic
you won't gain BP AND discount for one GEAS. the negative quality is in no correlation to the power cost reduction rule

[naga-nuyen]

That does not seem to be the case which is stated in the Street Magic page 31

For a more adept-driven game, gamemasters may allow adepts to voluntarily take a geas for a specific adept power; in return, the Power Point cost for that power is reduced by 25 percent (round normally). In this case, breaking the geasa only affects that power; the adepts remaining geasa-limited powers are unaffected.

So off the top of my head, (would not actually use this..but if sex is on the list so could this) This guy needs to do 100 push-ups and 100 sit-ups each day. Tuesday he does 99 because he can't count (low logic). That 24 hour period he loses his improved reflexes. That is it, no more damage done. At the beginning of the next day he can do 101 push-ups (1 for the Army) and wow moving like Greece lightning again.

So in the land of stats. He has magic 5 which is now 4 and he loses Improved reflexes which covers 3 points. Remaining powers are unaffected.

Edit: one note i missed is that I thought that was combined in one thing...i would not take the negative quality then lol, I would take something like Allergy: someone who cannot seem to read the rules right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (um that is me) Thanks for pointing that out

[Ascalaphus]

The bioware grades/classes debate was carried out extensively on an Augemtation Errata thread. IIRC, the developers said that what was meant that you have the folowing:

Basic Bioware = {Standard, Alpha, Beta, Delta}, where Alpha+ still needs to be adapted to the customer.
Cultured Bioware = {Standard, Alpha, Beta, Delta}, ALL Cultured bioware needs to be adapted to the customer

Type O treats Basic Standard as Basic Delta.

[Mäx]

Type O treats Basic Standard as Basic Delta.

IIRC alpha too, if you for some weird reason want to pay double for your ware for no benefit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Angelone]

Don't you need atleast 1 point of essence to have the magic attribute?

[Marcus]

Don't you need atleast 1 point of essence to have the magic attribute?

You do. And you really need more then that if your gonna have enough magic to make it worth the time. But type-O elevates this problem by making bio-ware cheap as for as essence cost goes to the point, where something are more cost effective (Due to essence pricing) to buy as bioware, I'm looking at you Muscle toner! Given that magic and essence while linked are no long one and the same stat (thank you buying magic separately) it can be very effective.

[naga-nuyen]

By looking through the rules, if I initiate and raise my magic attribute before i drop down and keep raising it then as long as I have .1 essence then he is fine. But if not then he would not take everything at it's highest level