Boosting your Drain Dice Pool, What are the ways to do so? Options

[Seidaku]

As far as I can tell, there are very few ways to increase your drain pool. Most of the ways I had assumed one could do so are not, upon closer reading, the case. Mentor spirit bonuses only apply to the spellcasting/summoning test, not the drain. Foci, likewise, cannot be used to add their force to the drain pool instead of the spellcasting/summoning test (according to another post, they *used* to be usable on either the main test OR on the drain test, but people were confused by this and used them for both, so it was changed to ONLY apply to the main test).

Unless I'm mistaken, the only ways to increase one's drain pool are:

• Somehow increase willpower and/or tradition drain attribute (charisma/logic/etc)
• Have the Focused Concentration positive quality
• Use the centering metamagic
• Cast a spell limited by a fetish

Am I missing anything?

[sabs]

Aren't there Drain Focii?

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

As far as I can tell, there are very few ways to increase your drain pool. Most of the ways I had assumed one could do so are not, upon closer reading, the case. Mentor spirit bonuses only apply to the spellcasting/summoning test, not the drain. Foci, likewise, cannot be used to add their force to the drain pool instead of the spellcasting/summoning test (according to another post, they *used* to be usable on either the main test OR on the drain test, but people were confused by this and used them for both, so it was changed to ONLY apply to the main test).

Unless I'm mistaken, the only ways to increase one's drain pool are:

• Somehow increase willpower and/or tradition drain attribute (charisma/logic/etc)
• Have the Focused Concentration positive quality
• Use the centering metamagic
• Cast a spell limited by a fetish

Am I missing anything?

• Blood Magic

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Neraph]

Absorption Metamagic and Leeching Metamagic also. Aspected Backround Count.

Drain Pact.

[TheMidnightHobo]

The easiest way I know is go a Logic tradition, get Cerebral Boosters and a Pain Editor (Boosts Willpower at expense of Intuition). Sure, you're losing a point of Magic, but for 3 or 4 more drain dice, I'd say it's worth it. Then grab up Centering as soon as possible, along with a Centering focus.

Can't spirits help with Drain, too?

[Neraph]

Blood Fetish - one point higher than a normal fetish, IIRC.

And better than Cerebral Boosters and Pain Editor would be either using select drugs (there's 5 I think that give bonuses to Willpower) or by sustaining spells and using Psyche. No Essence hit at all at that point.

Cheaper too.

[sabs]

What about using the nanites that boost logic?
You don't have to have a nano hive, you can instead get a monthly injection of nanites.

[Neraph]

There's one that gives a bonus to Logic-linked Tests, but not one that boosts Logic.

[Seidaku]

Absorption Metamagic and Leeching Metamagic also. Aspected Backround Count.
Drain Pact.

Thanks- I knew I had forgotten a few things. As an aside, does anyone happen to know if there's any defined rules for tracking down aspected (or un-aspected, for that matter) mana domains? I know with geomancy you can convert them to your aspect, but that's hardly helpful if you can't find any to use in the first place.

Can't spirits help with Drain, too?

Ah- right. Don't have the book in front of me, but I know you can have an ally spirit take drain for you. Not quite the same as extra dice, of course, but a good point. As far as I know, aside from ally spirits and drain pacts, no other spirit abilities can help with drain. Anyone care to corroborate that?

Blood Fetish - one point higher than a normal fetish, IIRC.

Hmm.. can't remember reading about this. Book/Page number?

[Neraph]

Thanks- I knew I had forgotten a few things. As an aside, does anyone happen to know if there's any defined rules for tracking down aspected (or un-aspected, for that matter) mana domains? I know with geomancy you can convert them to your aspect, but that's hardly helpful if you can't find any to use in the first place.


Ah- right. Don't have the book in front of me, but I know you can have an ally spirit take drain for you. Not quite the same as extra dice, of course, but a good point. As far as I know, aside from ally spirits and drain pacts, no other spirit abilities can help with drain. Anyone care to corroborate that?


Hmm.. can't remember reading about this. Book/Page number?

1) Domains are all areas of positive backround count between 1 and 6. There are a handful of ways to find them, and a couple ways to make them, and even an extended lifestyle to have one permanently on your house. For finding them... I think Magic Sense or there's a metamagic that's like super-assensing or something that helps find magical stuff.

2) Ally Spirits get Resist Drain, page 105 Street Magic. They don't like it. It's not on a list of spirit favors anywhere else I can find.

3) Digital Grimoire, page 14. +4 drain dice, causes a permanent loss of a box of Physical health as long as it's attached (can't be healed), 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , 10F.

[Makki]

Centering Metamagic allows to buy and bind Centering Foci.
cheapest way is get any MA and the Focus Will maneuver. +2 for 7BP

then there's the Drain Pact among the Spirit Pacts, I don't recommend it as it will drain your Karma aswell

best solution: Edge. How many times within one run do you really need a massive drain dice pool? twice, maybe 3 times...

[Neraph]

then there's the Drain Pact among the Spirit Pacts, I don't recommend it as it will drain your Karma aswell

The spirit may demand Karma from the magician to continue supplying mana to the magician.

That hardly says "The spirit will take karma from the magician to continue supplying mana to the magician," does it? It states that the spirit will try, and the magician can obviously choose not to pay, and "... the spirit can cut the mage off at any time," (Street Magic, page 108, Drain Pact).

EDIT: But yes, the absolutely cheapest and easiest way to increase Drain dice from chargen is picking up Increase (Attribute) for Willpower and your other drain stat and taking Psyche to help mitigate the sustaining penalty. It's quite easy to get to your augmented max for drain stats that way.

[czarcasm]

Another way to get two additional drain dice is to have a martial arts quality and then purchase the maneuver Focus Will. I believe that it adds two dice for Willpower tests.

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Well... edge aside, the usual bioware, Trauma Damper and Pain Editor (with restricted gear at chargen, or later), maybe the Platelet factory if you like to overcast. You can use First Aid on drain injuries, too, so a few boxes of physical can be taken care of by a skilled first-aid user.

If you look at it his way, each of these instances is worth on average three dice, and the nice thing: they are more certain that actually having the three dice. Having first aid performed does take time, but... if you only take one box of physical for three uncompensated points of drain, then that's well worth it, IMHO. So, if you have, say, 16 dice for drain (6s in both stats, 2 Focused Conc, 2 Fetish casting), that's a an average of 5 points of drain compensated, or more safely 4. You have effectively 25 dice, which is an average of 8, or a little less for safety. So you can cast spells with 7 physical drain and fairly reliably not take relevant damage. And if you roll badly, you can still use edge to reroll.

[Neraph]

Or you can have 18 to drain by having both of your drain stats at augmented max (assuming 1/6(9) for drain stats - if not, the number changes also) for the cost of just casting the spells and maybe 200 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for a dose of Psyche to mitigate the drain, and this doesn't cost Essence and massive amounts of cash to get.

And you can still get a blood fetish and Focused Concentration 2 for a total of 24, then pick up Centering and a Centering Focus a little bit later.

And, again, no Essence Cost.

Or heck, you can do all that and take the Pain Editor, Trauma Damper, and Platelet Factories. I'm just fairly strong against playing a mage with any cyber-bio unless for some reason you want to.

[Mäx]

Or heck, you can do all that and take the Pain Editor, Trauma Damper, and Platelet Factories. I'm just fairly strong against playing a mage with any cyber-bio unless for some reason you want to.

Well if your getting cyber eyes anyway, then Platelet Factories cost you no additional magic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Genetic Optimizations for drain stats probaply fit into the same 1 point of essence too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

And it's maybe pretty obvious, but Metagenetic improvment and Exceptional attribute for willpower or the other drain stat also help with getting higher drain pool.

[Neraph]

Especially on an Eagle Shifter.

[sabs]

Eagle Shifter Shaman with maxed out willpower and charisma (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
20 drain dice for the win?

[Neraph]

Nosferatu get 24.

[Draco18s]

Aren't there Drain Focii?

There are not.

However, if you wish to use the SR4 rules (pre SR4A errata) then a Spellcasting foci could add to drain, BUT, it could only add to the spellcasting test OR the drain test and not both. It was changed for 4A (to not work with drain) due to poor wording.

[Summerstorm]

Ok... so we have a nosferatu hermetic blood mage, heavily initiated with unlimited karma

Nosferatu
Agility /Strength: 7
Logic: 9(13)
Will: 9(13)
Edge: 6
both drain attributes maximized with spells and with exceptional quality (genetek won't work)
=26 dice base
Magic:
Let's say 15 (Just 525 karma for the magic and ~75 karma for five initiations after char-generation *g*)

Equipment:
Executioners Sword Str/2+4 damage
Bound Foci:
Centering Focus Force 50 (Hm... can someone please proof to me that it is impossible to make something like that? But as the rules tell me a easy-peasy 2500 hits, 1 day extended tests and ONE karma point will yield me such a monster)
Spell Focus (Comabt spell) Force 25
Focus addiction... HERE HE COMES

Metamagics:
Centering
Sacrifice
+ 3 at will

Skill:
Summoning 6(8 ) Guardian Spirit
Binding 6(8 ) Bloodspirits
Blades 6 (8 ) Executioners Sword
Three victims:
Two with full Essence
One with about 16 hitboxes (Ki-adepts with "Supernatural Toughness" or people with cyberlimbs?)

Ok.
First drain the two delicious essence-boosters, and declare them boosting magic (+12)
Then: 2x Complex action: kill the hitbox wonder (bound to a table, unable to move).
Melee Attack 7 (agi)+8 (skill) + 2 (superior position) +3 (opponent prone) +1 (reach) +6 (edge) -4 (called shot)= 22 (say~9 hits) dice DV=11(20).
Opponent: Can not defend. Resists maybe about 3 damage maybe 5 with edge= ~15 Helping drain for Monstor ™

Free action: Declaring centering (maniacal laughter):
+5 drain dice +50 dicepool modifier

Complex action casting whatever we want:
Say.. Ball of Elemental Carnage (Area Effect indirect combat spell with elemental effects of: (Fire, Metal, Sound, Sand, Acid, Light, Blast, Smoke and Water) (how does it work? NO IDEA... it just DOES) Drain Force/2+21
Chosen force: 52, Drain=48 Physical
Rolled: 27 (magic) + 8 (skill)+25 (spell focus)+6 (edge)=66 dice=~35 hits
Damage= ~87DV, Elemental effects (all), Counterspelling makes Monstor laugh

Drain 48:
Drain= drain-15=33
After that: roll 26 (attributes) + 5 (Centering) + 50 Dice pool modifier + X (Spirit pact)+6 Edge = 87++ dice= ~50 hits
No Drain.


Now you can balance the foki against each other. Think about what you can do with SPIRIT foki.
Is there any rule i missed limiting Force ratings of foki to magic or something? I only saw: maximum number =logic, maximum force of all foci combined = magic x5. Over double magic, fokus addiction is likely.

Also: This will NEVER, EVER happen. Though it seems theoreticaly possible (just give 1000 immortals 2500 years... the one who survives...), the whole things costs YEARS of time and THOUSANDS of Karma.

But that reminds me. Do some great (or just plain old) dragons carry Rating 20+ foki? Do Characters in the world have spirit pacts with force 20+ spirits? Possibilities are frightening.

[SleepIncarnate]

Isn't there one mentor spirit who instead of giving bonuses to spells and spirits instead gives a +1 or +2 to all drain tests?

[Neraph]

If that was your point you could have just declared a F50 Free Spirit. That's 100 drain dice without Centering or Augmented Max.

[Karoline]

There's one that gives a bonus to Logic-linked Tests, but not one that boosts Logic.

Neocortical, but they give the bonus to Logic-linked skills not tests, so don't help for drain. I'm fairly sure they were specifically written that way so that they'd work with hacking.

[Summerstorm]

If that was your point you could have just declared a F50 Free Spirit. That's 100 drain dice without Centering or Augmented Max.

Nah... where is the finesse? *g* And more factors? Have to keep it entertaining.