Getting the most out of AR Options

[Udoshi]

But isn't the money angle REALLY restricting you, here? I mean, without taking In Dept or even a positive quality, you've just blown almost all your cash on the Synaptic boosters.

Pretty much. You basically HAVE to use pirated software(unwired) to squeeze a lifestyle and your programs in there.

[Udoshi]

This may be a completely insane idea, but I'm gonna throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. What do you think of summoning a Task spirit and having it do the hacking? A spirit hacker would fit in very nicely with the urban shaman concept that's been kicking around in my head for three-quarters of forever.

And how do you propose this spirit hacks, with their inability to see electronic projections? (or is that a free spirit only thing?)
Bad Idea.
2 passes manifested. Possession spirits don't get access to their hosts cyberware, either, and can't use DNI devices.

[Tanegar]

And how do you propose this spirit hacks, with their inability to see electronic projections? (or is that a free spirit only thing?)
Bad Idea.
2 passes manifested. Possession spirits don't get access to their hosts cyberware, either, and can't use DNI devices.

Where is that? Why on earth wouldn't a spirit be able to see a screen?

[Yerameyahu]

In the book. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Because their vision is Astral-ish.

[Udoshi]

Where is that? Why on earth wouldn't a spirit be able to see a screen?

What Yerameyahu said. Spirits don't have normal human senses, and they can't make use of DNI at all.

More specificlly, RC 92.

Also, street magic 92. There may be other clauses elsewhere about spirit senses

No luck for possession spirits either, per the Living Vessels sidebar on SM 102

Possessing spirits cannot perceive or oper-ate AR or direct neural or cybernetic interfaces, and do not beneft from implants, cyberware, or nanoware that would require active control (i.e.: a spirit can beneft from a vessel’s bone lacing or eye replacement, but cannot activate vision enhancements or a datajack).

The sole exceptions are Inhabitation spirits with Flesh Forms - presumably True Forms as well. Inhabitation sidebar, SM 100.

Thats off the top of my head. There's probably a more detailed description of spirit senses somewhere.

THAT being said: I find it pretty stupid personally that a free spirit can't whip out their commlink and check the time. Being unable to use DNI is reasonable. Being completely barred from AR i can kiiinda justify. But being completely barred from comprehending any electronic projection, ever? Thats just retarded. More importantly, its the developers having an arguement, and basicallly going 'LOL NO SPIRITS ON INTERNETS'. Which i think is just retarded. Becaues that pretty much means they cant ever check their bank balance, or whether they got paid for the latest shadowrun. Come on. That's just stupid.

[TheScrivener]

Just to clarify: a posession spirit would still be able to read off a screen, though, right? Just not an AR display? And the Task spirit idea would be pretty interesting if you designed a special (custom, expensive) commlink with a Braille or otherwise textured readout readable by their sense of touch.

[KarmaInferno]

Yeah, I've been contemplating something like this. My mystic adept rigger has a custom Tradition I named "Ex Machina" that revolves around the fusing of magic and machine, though I haven't had her Task spirits do anything that wasn't "physical" yet.

That said, there's not many "by the book" rules that cover this.




-k

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Pretty much. You basically HAVE to use pirated software(unwired) to squeeze a lifestyle and your programs in there.

And pretty much NO other gear, and possibly even a crappy commlink. Hmmm.

I still think that Power Later doesn't work too well here. For an AR hacker to be effective out of the box you still want a few passes now, and there isn't any cheaper way than Geas learned adept powers. They may have drawbacks, sure enough, but for that occasion you just have to get a simsense booster in your commlink and get into VR, after all. It's not like you absolutely can't do it.

[TheScrivener]

This is key. Specializing in AR is all about mitigating drawbacks, not adding a lot of bonuses that you lose going into VR, really. Some of your adept abilities may not apply to simsense but that doesn't mean you're going to, say, probe a system from AR (1 day vs 1 hour interval, ouch!)

[sabs]

The character doesn't probe, he hacks on the fly (interval in combat turns) and beats up the opposition.
He's in no way subtle. It's like being a burglar who goes in through the front door and just knocks doors down and shoots people until he finds what he wants.

[TheScrivener]

You do realize that those kinds of burglars generally get *caught* right? Or shot when someone's expecting them? Flat saying you'll never probe a target is like refusing to take one point in social skills because you're a combat character and "that isn't your style." It severely hampers your options. Even the 9 foot cybered-up troll demolitions specialist in my group has 1 point in Infiltration because sometimes subtlety *works.*

[LurkerOutThere]

Going in expecting to beat the opposition in cybercombat is not a viable solution against corporate interests. Unless the system is completely off grid they can route Spiders onto it from anywhere in the world until they wear you down. Your saving grace is your less vulnerable to cybercombat damage but while your rebooting your link your not on the system doing what your team needs done.

[sabs]

Does 1 point of infiltration on a char like that really count as subtlety (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And yes, that kind of Hacker needs to bring Agent back up with him, several comlinks or a nexus running Agents.
He's the one who said he wanted to specialize on hack on the fly..
Besides, there's no reason a phys adept hacker can't go VR and do perfectly fine. He can get up to 4 IP's in vr if need be.
And so he probes in VR, and once he's in he switches to AR..not really that big a deal.

[KarmaInferno]

Does 1 point of infiltration on a char like that really count as subtlety (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Depends on his dice pool bonuses.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)




-k

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Does 1 point of infiltration on a char like that really count as subtlety (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And yes, that kind of Hacker needs to bring Agent back up with him, several comlinks or a nexus running Agents.
He's the one who said he wanted to specialize on hack on the fly..
Besides, there's no reason a phys adept hacker can't go VR and do perfectly fine. He can get up to 4 IP's in vr if need be.
And so he probes in VR, and once he's in he switches to AR..not really that big a deal.

Yes, I would say IF a GM were not understanding enough to realize that there is no bloody difference between four passes in AR and four passes in VR, and the dice are the same, then you could really probe in VR, and then go back to the meat to go in. They created that rule to keep VR cool enough, but IMHO it's just not warranted, and perfectly house-rule-able.

[Yerameyahu]

Don't take away one of the 3 remaining reasons for VR to even exist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Don't take away one of the 3 remaining reasons for VR to even exist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[sabs]

VR is for Riggers and for Playing Deeper Dungeons 47

[TheScrivener]

Really? VR is absolutely immersive, filling your entire sensorium with data translated into metaphors you can instantly respond to, charging through your consciousness faster than you would have thought possible. AR is great, and helps fill a lot of the gaps, but as long as I run SR there will be pu-hu-lenty of time spent in sculpted systems throwing your whole virtual body behind an attack against Black IC. There's a reason why they call it BTL.

[sabs]

Really? VR is absolutely immersive, filling your entire sensorium with data translated into metaphors you can instantly respond to, charging through your consciousness faster than you would have thought possible. AR is great, and helps fill a lot of the gaps, but as long as I run SR there will be pu-hu-lenty of time spent in sculpted systems throwing your whole virtual body behind an attack against Black IC. There's a reason why they call it BTL.

Yes from a fluf point of view you are completely absolutely right.

But from a crunch point of view, VR (except for that +2 bonus) has very few upsides compared to the taking physical damage.

[TheScrivener]

Initiative bonus, extra IPs, AND +2 to every single roll. Sure you can get bonuses from other sources and increase initiative in meat to compensate, but it's always going to be a LOT cheaper to get a hot-sim module than to get improved reflexes or wires. Simple economics; more to spend on actual comms/programs/skills means greater effectiveness.

And don't dismiss fluff, fluff is the only reason I've assembled the gaming group I have today.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

THAT being said: I find it pretty stupid personally that a free spirit can't whip out their commlink and check the time. Being unable to use DNI is reasonable. Being completely barred from AR i can kiiinda justify. But being completely barred from comprehending any electronic projection, ever? Thats just retarded. More importantly, its the developers having an arguement, and basicallly going 'LOL NO SPIRITS ON INTERNETS'. Which i think is just retarded. Becaues that pretty much means they cant ever check their bank balance, or whether they got paid for the latest shadowrun. Come on. That's just stupid.

Assuming that spirits get paid in Nuyen is equally stupid in my opinion... Spirits trade in Karma, not Nuyen... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

So spirits rely on servants. Done.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So spirits rely on servants. Done.

Most likely, if they have any influence at all... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) My point is that it doesn't render the game unplayable (for a weird ultra-niche beta race) or inexplicable, it only makes it different (from some people's personal vision). Neither way is better, because it's an arbitrary part of the setting, like so many parts of the setting. If it ruins the game for you, house-rule that the setting is different; people do this all the time for many reasons.