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#26
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
It's it a plot-needed NPC, then they should escape death regardless; if it's not, they should die regardless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In these *specific* situations, it's just simpler than the combat rules.
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#27
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,087 Joined: 3-October 09 From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier Member No.: 17,709 ![]() |
Nah. One third and half a kilo of kaboom right in somebody's stomach. Best done with nitroglycerin - first the victim's heart behaves like an overclocked CPU without heatsink, then he falls over, hits the ground hard and... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hand of |
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#28
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 873 Joined: 16-September 10 Member No.: 19,052 ![]() |
It's it a plot-needed NPC, then they should escape death regardless; if it's not, they should die regardless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In these *specific* situations, it's just simpler than the combat rules. Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree here. If it's a plot-necessary NPC then the GM should take precautions to keep him alive, but if the runners manage to kill him, well, tough luck. Time to change the plot. And even a non-essential NPC should have a chance to influence the plot, redirect it, if he either dies or stays alive. Just think, if that guy survives, he could come back at the runners with a vengeance, and there you have new plot. The players need to feel that they are actually doing something, here. If you just handwave it, no rolling involved, then what's the point? You can handwave everything. The random chance is what creates the tension and drama. Everything else just creates a railroad. |
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#29
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 8-March 10 Member No.: 18,258 ![]() |
Well... I would tend to say it should minimise the success chance of the body roll. If this is your mission target or pivotal NPC, I would expect them to do everything to survive. Resist the damage with body, use edge. Maybe even burn edge. Depending on the situation I would probably not have them use the hand of god survival - that should be reserved for runners, or at most the runner's long-time nemesis. As to the glass: Well... glass tends to sort of pulverize completely when the liquid it holds explodes. I've had recounts of stuff exploding in chemical labs, and the glass was just GONE. I've also heard of things blowing up in people's faces, and the glass didn't do too much, because it was in such small fragments. Agreed on the glass normally just vanishing into dust. I have seen large flasks shattering into bits the size of your hand, lucky for us the flask was covered in a heavy cloth ... but it was still scary. But if you strengthen the glass and put stress lines around it you should increase the change of large fragments. I agree on the pivotal NPC at least having a chance to survive, you could just have the bodyguard pick it up first or accidentally trigger it. |
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#30
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 4-November 10 Member No.: 19,151 ![]() |
Augmentation, Severe Wounds Rule: Heavy Damage Any time a character takes a large amount of damage at one time (7 or more boxes of either Physical or Stun damage from a single attack) -Blood Loss: Wherever those bullets went, they took part of a major artery or vein with them. The character will leak precious bodily fluids, incurring extra damage as if he is suffering from Physical Damage Overflow (p. 244, SR4) until the wound is stabilized. Are there any specific drugs/poisons in Shadowrun that can be used with explosives to prevent blood coagulation? i.e. – guarantee death from blood loss if the blast doesn’t kill him… |
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#31
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
Railroads are good, but that has zero to do with what I'm talking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) One way or anything, the PCs got their gun into the guy's mouth while he's asleep (that's the example scenario)… Drama is destroyed if a pistol in a helpless person's mouth *doesn't* kill them. I refuse to force my PCs to shoot the guy 3 times to be sure, that's all.
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#32
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 873 Joined: 16-September 10 Member No.: 19,052 ![]() |
Railroads are good, but that has zero to do with what I'm talking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) One way or anything, the PCs got their gun into the guy's mouth while he's asleep (that's the example scenario)… Drama is destroyed if a pistol in a helpless person's mouth *doesn't* kill them. I refuse to force my PCs to shoot the guy 3 times to be sure, that's all. Well, maybe you need your worlds more "realistic". The point remains that people have been "executed" with a shot to the head and survived. You CAN botch shooting yourself in the mouth, so you can reasonably also botch shooting someone else. That and if it's a light pistol we might just be dealing with 8P, if you're not even requiring a roll. As a PC I would want to survive that. But we're talking semantics, here. If the runners say "we execute the guy", then they do just that, no questions asked, and no rolls involved, because they will just make damn sure he's dead. However, if they only said "we put a bullet in his head", then.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
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#33
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
See, that's exactly the problem: that's *too* realistic. As you said, in 'real life', people survive that. Outside real life, they don't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I agree about your last bit. That's all I'm saying: don't use the demo rules if the point is a dramatic execution by bomb. And don't use some cruddy little bottle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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#34
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 4-November 10 Member No.: 19,151 ![]() |
...And don't use some cruddy little bottle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) What's wrong with a bottle-bomb!? You're relaxing in a hip bar and about to a drink nice cold one, then 'BAM'! Worst day of your life. So, you live to tell about it, but you got no teeth and your nose is an “inny”. |
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#35
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
No, I like it. I just don't want it to be LITTLE. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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#36
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 574 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Ucluelet - Tofino - Nanaimo Salish-Sahide Council Member No.: 17,309 ![]() |
Er, how does your character feel about collateral damage?
Just curious, does it have to be just one bottle? Can it be a whole case of bottles of "beer"? Edit: What about a keg? I hope you know where I am going with this, if it must be dead, put two in the head aka build redundancy into your IED. Reduce the chance the target picks up the wrong bottle and have the other bottles go off when the one in his hand/mouth does. I also liked the suggestion of custom crafting the bottle(s) to be frag nades (and the bottle doesn't have to be made of glass, could be metal or some composite material). Also consider making the case holding the "beer" part of the equation too for yet more "umpf", perhaps by making the case first toss the bottles into the air before they go off for a bouncing betty effect. Not sure if that would ruin the lack of detection thing by having the small amounts of explosive in each bottle. Wouldn't a sealed container make detecting the explosives harder? What do targets in 2072+ use to detect explosives? |
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#37
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Advocatus Diaboli ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 ![]() |
Yes, a hermetic seal would do it, if you cleaned the bottle thoroughly. By the time his cybersniffer activates (on open), it's too late. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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#38
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 4-November 10 Member No.: 19,151 ![]() |
Er, how does your character feel about collateral damage? Just curious, does it have to be just one bottle? Can it be a whole case of bottles of "beer"? Edit: What about a keg? Ha, why not just call in an air-strike! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) The intent here is to kill (or at least come close to killing) a target of importance (thus, the need for well defined rules), indirectly (cannot be there to pull the trigger), in an obvious fashion (no subtle poisoning), while the target is indoors (cannot snipe him), and without killing any bystanders (no collateral damage). |
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#39
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 574 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Ucluelet - Tofino - Nanaimo Salish-Sahide Council Member No.: 17,309 ![]() |
Ha, why not just call in an air-strike! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) The intent here is to kill (or at least come close to killing) a target of importance (thus, the need for well defined rules), indirectly (cannot be there to pull the trigger), in an obvious fashion (no subtle poisoning), while the target is indoors (cannot snipe him), and without killing any bystanders (no collateral damage). Oh, in that case, I can totally see someone the bottle is not intended for taking a swig and bingo, collateral damage. *is seen using a comm to call off the drone air strike* You are making this tough with the no collateral damage thing, especially when it comes to explosives seeing as they have a area of effect radius. Ok, what kind of leg work have you done on your target, what do we know about the targets habits? Does the target wear jewelry? Distinctive clothing or other piece of equipment? Or do you know the indoor location and exactly where the target will be in it and so, perhaps, drop a bit of the ceiling (chandelier for example) on the target without hitting anyone else? Or drop the floor out from under the target and have them drop to their death, perhaps. Hmm, explosive seating arrangement? Favourite culinary past time object other than perhaps one of his body guards might take a sip of first? By chance, this character wouldn't happen to be trying to pull off a Ray Quick, who IIRC used a teapot because his target would always have tea time ... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111255/ |
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