Improved invisibility vs. security cameras, is it that difficult? Options

[shon]

Quick question: is using improved invisibility to cheat a camera sensor really hard?

Explanation:
[page 208 SR4A rule book]
Physical illusions are effective against technological systems, assuming the caster achieves enough hits to meet the Object Resistance threshold.

Consulting page 183, a typical camera sensor should be about 4 object resistance, some might even argue that more, but let's stick to 4 for now.

Meaning: you need to have 4 hits on the improved invisibility spell test.
You also need it to be force 4 spell since force limits hits.

I guess the more powerful magicians can do it in their sleep, while drunk. But for a starting shadowrunner with magic 5 and spellcasting of 3-4, (8-9 DP) getting 4 hits would be considered pretty lucky, no?

What I'm trying to say is: I thought doing improved invisibility is a rather easy trick to bypass security cameras, but after reading the book, I guess it's something for the more powerful characters.

And on a related note: should the caster know how good the spell went? Can they judge if it's enough to bypass that camera or should they find out by seeing the security guys running toward them?

[Makki]

I thought doing improved invisibility is a rather easy trick to bypass security cameras, but after reading the book, I guess it's something for the more powerful characters.

nobody wants an I-WIN-Button in a game.

[shon]

nobody wants an I-WIN-Button in a game.

As a GM I completely agree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Consulting page 183, a typical camera sensor should be about 4 object resistance, some might even argue that more, but let's stick to 4 for now.

Consulting page 183, a "Sensor" is explicitly listed as OR 3.

[Thanee]

Yep, the threshold is 3 to fool sensors and cameras and such. So 3 hits on Improved Invisibility make you not appear on recordings at all (since there is no opposed test).

Bye
Thanee

[Belvidere]

I've always played my mages to where they know how much power they want to drop into a spell, (they know the force), and usually assume they're doing as well as they tried to do.

[Draco18s]

And on a related note: should the caster know how good the spell went? Can they judge if it's enough to bypass that camera or should they find out by seeing the security guys running toward them?

"Hey Jack! Can you see me through your video-stream? No? Awesome, lets roll guys."

[Belvidere]

"Hey Jack! Can you see me through your video-stream? No? Awesome, lets roll guys."

Very cheesy, but very good tactic. Haha

[Thanee]

Why is that cheesy!?

Bye
Thanee

[shon]

Thanks everybody, that explains it. for some reason I missed the table that said sensors have 3 resistance. Thanks for your help!

[KarmaInferno]

If you really insist on casting it at low Force, throw some Edge at it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




-k

[mmmkay]

Thanks everybody, that explains it. for some reason I missed the table that said sensors have 3 resistance. Thanks for your help!

Consulting page 183, a "Sensor" is explicitly listed as OR 3.

I've been looking around SR4a for the appropriate table and I do see the object resistance table on pg. 183, but I don't see sensors explicitly stated. In fact I only see object resistances of 1,2,4, and 6+. Could someone explain where the senor object resistance is hiding?

[Draco18s]

I've been looking around SR4a for the appropriate table and I do see the object resistance table on pg. 183, but I don't see sensors explicitly stated. In fact I only see object resistances of 1,2,4, and 6+. Could someone explain where the senor object resistance is hiding?

SR4 had 1,2,3,4+ and SR4A raised that to 1,2,4,6+

[mmmkay]

SR4 had 1,2,3,4+ and SR4A raised that to 1,2,4,6+

but then it's not on pg. 183. The object resistance table is on pg. 183 of SR4a, but is on pg. 174 of SR4. Additionally Rotbart said "explicitly" and it is not explicit at all as in the word sensor does not exist on pg. 183.

Hence my confusion.

[Aarakin]

Odd.....

My PDF copy has it in the third category of the Object Resistance Table:

Manufactured high-tech objects and materials (Advanced plastics, Alloys, Electronic equipment, Sensors)

Then again, it also lists the thresholds as 1, 2, 3 and 5+

I hate multiple versions.....

[mmmkay]

Ok well for whatever version I have Advanced Plastics, Alloys, and Electronic Equipment are OR 4, so Sensors are OR 4 in my version it seems.

[Makki]

Ok well for whatever version I have Advanced Plastics, Alloys, and Electronic Equipment are OR 4, so Sensors are OR 4 in my version it seems.

OR got pumped up with SR4A

[Thanee]

Hmm... my SR4A copies (all three versions, regular, limited, PDF) have the same OR table, which lists 1, 2, 3, 5+ for thresholds and has sensors in the 3 category.

This same table is also in the SR4A changes document.


@mmmkay: What version of the book do you have? Is it the english book, or a translation?

Bye
Thanee

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Ok well for whatever version I have Advanced Plastics, Alloys, and Electronic Equipment are OR 4, so Sensors are OR 4 in my version it seems.

That was the pre-print Version which got discussed in great lenghts here. Which lead to some changes.

Hence my confusion.

I would know because I made the point there that Sensors should get explicitly listed as one rating or another.

And it should have been updated by whom ever you purchased it from. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Medicineman]

Thanks everybody, that explains it. for some reason I missed the table that said sensors have 3 resistance. Thanks for your help!

Sensors & Cameras have OR 3 but Drones have OR 5(at Least in the German SR4A Edition) !

Hough!
Medicineman

[Rotbart van Dain...]

And it doesn't matter — their Sensors are fooled.

That was the whole point of getting Sensors listed explicitly — to kill the inane discussions about how a drone's sensors are better than fixed sensors to spot magical intruders, or why people don't simply glue commlinks, which also rate as max OR, to walls and poles.

[Thanee]

Exactly. One should not forget, that the table has multiple purposes. Affecting a drone with a spell, that transforms it into something else, for example, would have the OR 5 threshold. But becoming invisible to the drone's sensors uses the OR 3 threshold.

Bye
Thanee

[Mäx]

Sensors & Cameras have OR 3 but Drones have OR 5(at Least in the German SR4A Edition) !

Hough!
Medicineman

Which only matters if your trying to use direct combat spells to destroy it or affecting it with some manipulation spell.

[Aku]

mmm, why are you trying to beat the OR on sensors on a drone, any ways? shouldnt the test be sensor + clearsoft?

[Thanee]

Because...

"Physical illusions are effective against technological systems, assuming the caster achieves enough hits to meet the Object Resistance threshold."

...and...

"... non-living devices do not get a resistance test."

Bye
Thanee