Pip-Boy, sensor packages. Options

[Chance359]

I'm looking for the best way for a mundane-non cyber character to be able to run/join a level 4 tac net requiring at least 8 sensors. I know I'll probably end up going with a mounted sensor platform (size of a lunch box) the question is what to put in it. Any help would be appreciated.

[Aberrant]

Hmm. Well, to start, let's go with the visual aspect. You can get some glassess (or goggles, depending on style, etc) and mount them with a camera (1st channel), with low light (2nd channel) and thermographic (3rd channel), plus a nifty zoom feature in Image Magnification (4th channel). Then you can add a set of earbuds linked to a microphone and you now have audio (5th channel). Now say you get a small sensor package and strap it to your arm. In this package you could include, for example, a motion sensor and a radio signal scanner (6th and 7th channels). On your other arm, strap on an Active sonar system (channel (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) .

[Yerameyahu]

No reason to get a lunchbox. Just get lots of little package. I think I use about 3-4 handhelds, but you can use the mini (not micro or tag, typically). Stick them all over your body.

[Aberrant]

Also, you can always wear a simrig underneath your hat/helmet, that gives you 5 channels (audio, visual, olfactory, tactile, taste) and if you have low-light, thermographic, and vision mag in some glasses? Boom, set.

[KCKitsune]

Smartlink adds another channel. You can also get Ultrasound and Ultrawide band radar for another two channels.

[Karoline]

Aberrant has the right idea, but it is even easier.

Glasses/goggles/contacts with image link (1), Low Light (2), thermographic (3), Smartlink (4), and Vision Enhancement (5).
Earbuds (6) with Hearing Enhancement (7) and Select Sound Filter ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Channels are so stupidly easy to obtain they aren't an actual limitation on TacNet.

[LurkerOutThere]

I would not take select sound filter as another channel, I'm also fairly iffy on smartlink and especially vision enhancement although I think their more book solid rules wise.*

Personally after some of the previous discussions I think the best way to engineer such a monstrosity would be to mount it on a gyromount harness. Not subtle by any means but neither is having like 8 sensors hanging off your body.

*Before anyone gets too bent out of shape, my opinion does matter somewhat as I will likely be the OP's GM.

[Yerameyahu]

You'll want way more than the *minimum*, because only some are relevant ('count') some of the time.

Definitely do the simrig, which is really just trodes, which you should have anyway.

Sensors can be subtle. Mini is coin-sized, and handheld isn't outlandish to wear in 2070, the age of ubiquitous information and surveillance. Get doubles of everything and have one set front and back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Karoline]

Sorry, meant spacial recognizers, not select sound filters.

And I can see maybe not thinking vision enhancement counts, as the list include things that change your vision as opposed to simply improve what you already have. Smartlink though is listed as a specific example. It is however an improvement over normal vision, just as all the others are. Throw in vision magnification instead, and you're back up to 7 (with hearing enhancement not counting). Grab a random sensor of your choice and stick it in your pocket or attach it to your commlink or whatever. Bam, back up to 8. Like I said, sensor channels are absurdly easy to get.

And if you have 8 sensors, then each is going to be small enough to fit on an RFID, which means that we're talking hair widths for size. You could fit a hundred of them in your pocket and look like you have a couple of coins (which is to say, basically not noticeable).

[Yerameyahu]

No, like I said, RFID (tags) aren't a real option. They have specific limitations, including limited Rating (I know, but why bother having crappy sensors?) and limited functionality (simple and/or intermittent reporting, etc.). Coins are small enough… it could mean dimes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Karoline]

No, like I said, RFID (tags) aren't a real option. They have specific limitations, including limited Rating (I know, but why bother having crappy sensors?) and limited functionality (simple and/or intermittent reporting, etc.). Coins are small enough… it could mean dimes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

An RFID sized sensor is not an RFID tag, kind of like a vehicle sized sensor is not a vehicle. You could easily stick an olfactory function into an RFID sized sensor and get the sensor channel.

[LurkerOutThere]

I am reasonably certain that the inclusion of smartlink as a cybernetic sensory enhancement is entirely a copy and pasting error. I cannot see a targeting retiicle and ammo count as constituting another channel, certainly useful information and definitely helpful for automatically tracking who is plugged. But something akin to thermo or lowlight or WBR? Not so much.

My other issue with microsized scanners is a practical one, if such scanners were available that small corporations would bomb their facilities with them, therefore making shadowrunning impossible outside the barrens, so i'm really looking out for the setting consistency you see.

Edit addendum: Aberrant raises a good point.

[Aberrant]

I'm fairly certain that the major restriction for mico-sensors is their pitiful signal of, what, 0?

And yeah, I was iffy on Vision Magnification AND Smartlink, but the example in Unwired specifically used both. Also, I can indeed see how Smartlink could be useful however. Knowing how much ammo your teammate has, where they are pointing, when they are firing, and the condition of their weapon is pretty useful.

[Kronk2]

I would include a target designator as part of the standard rig.

[Teryon]

Pardon me for butting in, but Im curious: why the effort for a tacnet at all? What is it that's so useful.

[Makki]

remember, that drones never can participate in a rating 4 tacnet, as their maximum sensor rating is 6.

[Lansdren]

on the smartlink issue I would put forward that having a realtime indication of where every member of the team is pointing their weapon could be handy from a tacnet point of view especialy with things like friendly fire and projected detonation radi.


but thats just my interpratation

[ProfGast]

Pardon me for butting in, but Im curious: why the effort for a tacnet at all? What is it that's so useful.

Your answer can be found on Unwired pg 126

When in operation, tacnets provide dice pool bonuses for certain actions. The dice pool bonus is based on the number of team members (that is, each member that is supplyign the minimum amount of sensor channels). The bonus equals the total number of team members minus 2 (you need at least 3 members to have an effective tacnet so the first two don't count), up to a maximum equal to the software's rating.

As for what applies?

Close Combat Tests
Dodge Tests
Firearm Tests
Infiltration Tests
Maneuvering Tests
Perception Tests
Shadowing Tests
Surprise Tests

In order to get Tacnet bonuses you must
A. have the software,
B. have as many sensor channels available as 2x Tacnet soft rating and
C. have at least one other Tacnet equipped ally 'seeing' the same situation as you.
As you can see, this means that having a tacnet up and running is awfully nice to have.

@Makki: Drones can be PART of a tacnet 4. Just as sensor channels, not actual participants (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Wasabi]

A Simrig's 'touch' sensor channel isnt applicable in most combat situations. The key is to have sensor channels that apply!

[shon]

remember, that drones never can participate in a rating 4 tacnet, as their maximum sensor rating is 6.

Can somebody help me understand? How does sensor rating influence/limit the tacnet operation?

[Ascalaphus]

I'm happy to report the first tryout of my simplified tacnet house rule last sunday evening.

The rule:
0) Participation requires at least a vision device with image link and smartlink.
1) Anyone on the TacNet gains the most favorable visibility towards stuff that anyone in the TacNet has on that stuff. For example: Joe is talking to the bank robber, and Pete is behind the wall. Pete wants to shoot the bank robber through the wall. Since Joe has normal visibility on the bank robber, Pete doesn't have to take -6 to hit due to visibility.
2) If there are at least two different viewpoints on a target, the TacNet gives you a +2 bonus against the target. For example: Joe and Pete are walking around and have a GTS Tower drone flying around. When dealing with enemies the GTS Tower can see too, they get a +2 for having additional viewpoints. When they shoot at something the GTS Tower can't see, they don't get the bonus.
3) A TacNet shares information about ammo status, biomonitors and odd sensors about environmental conditions in an efficient manner. Anything one of the participants can see, he can point out to all participants with a Free Action. For example: Joe is the only one to succeed at Perception to spot the sniper. He spends a Free Action to point him out on the TacNet, and not Sally and Pete can see him too, without having to make new checks.

I found it easy to apply; it cuts away lots of calculations to see how high situational bonuses would be. It also removes the odd effect where adding a new member with less sensor channels reduced the TacNet's quality for everyone else.

[Karoline]

remember, that drones never can participate in a rating 4 tacnet, as their maximum sensor rating is 6.

Not true. It says that a drone supplies sensor channels equal to its sensor rating. It doesn't say that it can't also include other sensors (like a camera for vision, equipped with several vision enhancements such as low light and thermal).

Edit: Oh, and I really like Ascalphus' version. No more having to count sensor channels and people without enough sensors being randomly excluded. (Because lets face it, if you have the required number of people/channels to get the thing to work, anyone else should be able to connect to the net and claim the bonus even if they aren't supplying tons of channels.)

[Yerameyahu]

Karoline, I'm not sure that's correct. How is an RFID sensor package not a sensor tag? Your counterexample seems irrelevant. The text on p333 seems to very clearly say that all RFID sensor packages *are* sensor tags, and function as described on p329.

Aberrant, I wouldn't say Signal 0 is any kind of restriction. If anything, you'd probably turn wireless off and use skinlink in the first place. In addition, one can presumably increase Signal by up to +2 using the standard electronics rules.

I agree that the Drone/TacNet rule is *either* use the shorthand 'Sensor rating' and ignore relevant sensors, *or* use the detailed sensor setup. This is exactly the same way drones can either use the shorthand 'Sensor rating' for all sensor-related tests, or use the relevant sensor(s) for those tests.

[Warlordtheft]

I agree that the Drone/TacNet rule is *either* use the shorthand 'Sensor rating' and ignore relevant sensors, *or* use the detailed sensor setup. This is exactly the same way drones can either use the shorthand 'Sensor rating' for all sensor-related tests, or use the relevant sensor(s) for those tests.

IRCC the only way to improve the sensors on a drone/vehicle is to replace the individual sensors.

Also, where does it state that a drone does not qualify as a tacsoft member (assuming they have the tacnet software)?

[Makki]

Also, where does it state that a drone does not qualify as a tacsoft member (assuming they have the tacnet software)?

they, do. But they can't provide 8 channels, as the limit for their sensor value is 6. It's a stupid rule, but which isn't?