Language skills.. Options

[Teryon]

Mechanics-wise, is there any stat that actually boosts it? The book mentions it being linked to intuition but goes on to talk as if the language skill you buy(which Im being blind and cant find the cost for atm) is the rating you have period. From a more meta standpoint, is it smart to have a number of languages at 4-6 rating? Im contemplating doing such a thing.

[Makki]

it's all in the book. there's really not much to know about it. Skills->Language skills SR4A p129

[Mäx]

As far as i understand the rating of your language skill limits the rating of your social skill when socializing in a foreign language.
Intuition comes in to play when your making a language test to see whether you understand the other guy or not, att least i assume that the language test is like any other normal test and you roll the linked attribute+the skill, otherwise the tresholds on that test are pretty crazy.

[PoliteMan]

Since Linguasofts are so cheap and can be bought almost instantly, there's usually much better things to spend your Karma/BP on.

[toturi]

Since Linguasofts are so cheap and can be bought almost instantly, there's usually much better things to spend your Karma/BP on.

Some languages, IIRC by canon, are not available on linguasofts.

[PoliteMan]

Which ones aren't available? The only one I can think of was Or'ket wasn't available beyond rating 3 in 3rd edition.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The myriard used in Lagos, because no-one really bothers. And so should you: Get a local to translate and telepathy spells, otherwise communicate with weapons.

Of course, if you are an Adept with Linguistics, you can drive your GM insane by getting the frist point for free for all of them. Then use Learning Stimulus Nanites to advance them to 3 for free.

[mmmkay]

The myriard used in Lagos, because no-one really bothers. And so should you: Get a local to translate and telepathy spells, otherwise communicate with weapons.

Of course, if you are an Adept with Linguistics, you can drive your GM insane by getting the frist point for free for all of them. Then use Learning Stimulus Nanites to advance them to 3 for free.

NICE COMBO. Although that's probably at it's most useful for a social adept type, but still I like it. You can also take the linguist quality to boost your free rating 3 languages by 1(2 if your language rating is 4 or higher).

[pbangarth]

The myriard used in Lagos, because no-one really bothers. And so should you: Get a local to translate and telepathy spells, otherwise communicate with weapons.

Of course, if you are an Adept with Linguistics, you can drive your GM insane by getting the frist point for free for all of them. Then use Learning Stimulus Nanites to advance them to 3 for free.

NICE COMBO. Although that's probably at it's most useful for a social adept type, but still I like it. You can also take the linguist quality to boost your free rating 3 languages by 1(2 if your language rating is 4 or higher).

I think Linguistics is one of the coolest adept powers. Not necessarily most powerful... coolest. And I like to throw in the Linguist Quality as well.

[StealthSigma]

Of course, if you are an Adept with Linguistics, you can drive your GM insane by getting the frist point for free for all of them. Then use Learning Stimulus Nanites to advance them to 3 for free.

I don't have a copy of Street Magic. What's the wording of the Linguistics power?

[pbangarth]

The Linguistics power combines enhanced memorzation and mimicry to allow an adept to pick up a new language after minimal exposure -- no Karma expenditure is required. After (10 - Magic) hours of contact to the new language in use, the adept makes an Intuition + Logic Test using a threshold as noted in the Linguistic Table (p. 177). If successful, the adept develops the Language skill at Rating 1 at no Karma cost. Increaing the skill beyond this point requires normal Karma expenditure, but the base learning time for the adept is halved.

Linguist
Cost: 5 BP
A character with this quality has a natural gift for learning
and understanding languages, grasping vocabulary and grammar
much more quickly than others would. This quality halves the
basic learning time for a language and modifies the rating of
any
Language skill the character possesses by +2.

EDIT: So my adept with Magic 6 and both of the above learns a new language after

(10-6) = 4 hours, divided by 2 = 2 hours if the GM agrees that 'basic learning time' applies to the original adept power test.

Even if not, the base time to get a new Rating is quartered, and extra increases are layered on top.

[Doc Byte]

The Mnemonic Enhancer and Qualia Genware are nice as well for a talkative character.

[Yerameyahu]

Eh. I'll stick with the Linguasofts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[StealthSigma]

EDIT: So my adept with Magic 6 and both of the above learns a new language after

(10-6) = 4 hours, divided by 2 = 2 hours if the GM agrees that 'basic learning time' applies to the original adept power test.

Even if not, the base time to get a new Rating is quartered, and extra increases are layered on top.

The better question is what your language level is considered for improving that language skill. Is it 1 or 3 due to the quality? I'm assuming the learning time reduction is a reduction on the interval for the extended test. So instead of an interval of 1 week, it takes .25 weeks or 42 hours for the interval.

It also depends on if linguistics gives a +2 for learning...

Assuming it's a 42 hour interval, Linquistics gives the +2 for learning, you have an Intuition of 3, and your skill is considered 1.... getting to 6 in a language would take....

2 intervals to go from 1->2
3 intervals to go from 2->3
3 intervals to go from 3->4

So a grand total of 336 hours or 2 weeks. 2 weeks + <10 hours to effectively master a language. Not bad at all.

If you're considered at skill 3....

4 intervals to go from 3->4
5 intervals to go from 4->5
5 intervals to go from 5->6

That takes 588 hours or 24 and a half days + <10 hours to master a language.

[pbangarth]

Yes, I have thought about which Rating to use when spending Karma, given the Linguist Quality increase. I treat it as being similar to augmentation of a Stat. If one has an implant or other augmentation that increases a Stat from 3 to (5), spending Karma to increase the Stat works on the 3, rather than the 5. (See page 270, SR4A under Improving Attributes.)

The text describing the Language skill increase is unclear as to how to apply the +2. Some people interpret it as going on immediately, others say you have to follow the 1.5 X current skill limitation, even though that mechanism is not explicitly cited.

With the former, the skill progression is as follows:

1(3), 2(4), 3(5), 4(6), 5(7), 6 ( 8 ).

With the latter:

1, 2(3), 3(4), 4(6), 5(7), 6( 8 ).

[Mäx]

The text describing the Language skill increase is unclear as to how to apply the +2. Some people interpret it as going on immediately, others say you have to follow the 1.5 X current skill limitation, even though that mechanism is not explicitly cited.

As the augmented skill maximums is a general rule, there shouldn't be any need for somethink to specifically cite it for it to apply. General rules need only be cited when your making an exception to it IMO(and yes I'm well aware that the quality write-ups in RC don't follow this simple premise).
But i do think that the limit should be house ruled away for this quality so it becomes more usefull.
It is after all much more important for a face to get to treat his rating 1 language skills as rating 3 then geting to treat rating 4:s as rating 6 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

By the way now that we're in the subject of language skill, i assume that native language doesn't limit social skills at all so a social adept actually gets some use out of his improved social ability power(s).
But i don't actually see anyway for a character to get to use rating 9 and 10 social skills while speaking a foreign language, as language skill max out at 8 for those who have the linguistic quality, others are even worse of maxim at 6.

[StealthSigma]

As the augmented skill maximums is a general rule, there shouldn't be any need for somethink to specifically cite it for it to apply. General rules need only be cited when your making an exception to it IMO(and yes I'm well aware that the quality write-ups in RC don't follow this simple premise).
But i do think that the limit should be house ruled away for this quality so it becomes more usefull.
It is after all much more important for a face to get to treat his rating 1 language skills as rating 3 then geting to treat rating 4:s as rating 6 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

By the way now that we're in the subject of language skill, i assume that native language doesn't limit social skills at all so a social adept actually gets some use out of his improved social ability power(s).
But i don't actually see anyway for a character to get to use rating 9 and 10 social skills while speaking a foreign language, as language skill max out at 8 for those who have the linguistic quality, others are even worse of maxim at 6.

Aptitude Language(German)?

[Eratosthenes]

By the way now that we're in the subject of language skill, i assume that native language doesn't limit social skills at all so a social adept actually gets some use out of his improved social ability power(s).
But i don't actually see anyway for a character to get to use rating 9 and 10 social skills while speaking a foreign language, as language skill max out at 8 for those who have the linguistic quality, others are even worse of maxim at 6.

You could always take Aptitude towards a language, if it was a big hindrance. Or Bilingual to gain another Native language. Can you take Bilingual multiple times, for additional native languages?

Regardless, I thought Adepts powers were modifiers to the dice pool (+X to Social skills) as opposed to adding directly to the social skill (Negotiation 6->7). Language skills only limit the dice from the social skills themselves, not any modifiers. Someone with Charisma 5, tailored pheremones (3), and Negotiation 5 working in Japanese (3) would get 3+3+5 = 11 dice for negotiation tests.

[Jizmack]

By the way now that we're in the subject of language skill, i assume that native language doesn't limit social skills at all so a social adept actually gets some use out of his improved social ability power(s).
But i don't actually see anyway for a character to get to use rating 9 and 10 social skills while speaking a foreign language, as language skill max out at 8 for those who have the linguistic quality, others are even worse of maxim at 6.

Although, the example in the book (SR4 page 135) only rolls a number of dice equal to the skill rating (cannot default), Language is still linked to Intuition. For limiting a character’s social skills when using a non-native language, I always compare it to Language + Intuition. This way, even if a character does not know the language at all, he/she can still employ social skills limited by his/her Intuition. As we all know, social skills are not entirely verbal.

[pbangarth]

You could always take Aptitude towards a language, if it was a big hindrance. Or Bilingual to gain another Native language. Can you take Bilingual multiple times, for additional native languages?

Regardless, I thought Adepts powers were modifiers to the dice pool (+X to Social skills) as opposed to adding directly to the social skill (Negotiation 6->7). Language skills only limit the dice from the social skills themselves, not any modifiers. Someone with Charisma 5, tailored pheremones (3), and Negotiation 5 working in Japanese (3) would get 3+3+5 = 11 dice for negotiation tests.

It's the Linguist Quality that does the modification, not the adept power Linguistics, and it is worded as "modifies the rating of any Language skill the character possesses by +2."

[Draco18s]

Regardless, I thought Adepts powers were modifiers to the dice pool (+X to Social skills) as opposed to adding directly to the social skill (Negotiation 6->7). Language skills only limit the dice from the social skills themselves, not any modifiers. Someone with Charisma 5, tailored pheremones (3), and Negotiation 5 working in Japanese (3) would get 3+3+5 = 11 dice for negotiation tests.

But in English (his native) he only gets 8?* Somehow I doubt that's how that works.
Also you did the math wrong.
5+5+3+3 = 16

*13 if you do the math right.

[SleepIncarnate]

You could always take Aptitude towards a language, if it was a big hindrance. Or Bilingual to gain another Native language. Can you take Bilingual multiple times, for additional native languages?

Regardless, I thought Adepts powers were modifiers to the dice pool (+X to Social skills) as opposed to adding directly to the social skill (Negotiation 6->7). Language skills only limit the dice from the social skills themselves, not any modifiers. Someone with Charisma 5, tailored pheremones (3), and Negotiation 5 working in Japanese (3) would get 3+3+5 = 11 dice for negotiation tests.

That depends on the power. Improved Ability is a direct increase to the skill, Kinesics is an increase to the dice pools.

And speaking as someone who actually is a linguist, a 3 is about on par with most native speakers, most of us speak at about the 2 level (facts) most of the time and occaisionally move up into the 3 range (opinions, feelings, etc). 4 is when you start getting into more advanced aspects of language like in depth science, politics, etc.

[Mäx]

Regardless, I thought Adepts powers were modifiers to the dice pool (+X to Social skills) as opposed to adding directly to the social skill (Negotiation 6->7). Language skills only limit the dice from the social skills themselves, not any modifiers. Someone with Charisma 5, tailored pheremones (3), and Negotiation 5 working in Japanese (3) would get 3+3+5 = 11 dice for negotiation tests.

The Improved Ability set of powers explisitly raise the rating of the skill(s) you have the power(s) for.

Although, the example in the book (SR4 page 135) only rolls a number of dice equal to the skill rating (cannot default), Language is still linked to Intuition. For limiting a character’s social skills when using a non-native language, I always compare it to Language + Intuition. This way, even if a character does not know the language at all, he/she can still employ social skills limited by his/her Intuition. As we all know, social skills are not entirely verbal.

While i agree on on adding the intuition to test to see whether you can undertand what the other person is saying, adding it to the social skill limit too makes that a pretty meaningless limit.

[Eratosthenes]

But in English (his native) he only gets 8?* Somehow I doubt that's how that works.
Also you did the math wrong.
5+5+3+3 = 16

*13 if you do the math right.

Uh, where are you getting the extra +5 from?

Negotiation (5 limited to 3 by Japanese language skill) + Tailored Pheremones (3) + Charisma (5) = 11 in my example.

Native language does not limit social dice, so if they were working in their native English, they'd have 5 + 3 + 5 = 13.

[Megu]

Actual linguistics grad student here. This thread makes me want to shoot myself in the head. LANGUAGE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY