Mechanics-wise, is there any stat that actually boosts it? The book mentions it being linked to intuition but goes on to talk as if the language skill you buy(which Im being blind and cant find the cost for atm) is the rating you have period. From a more meta standpoint, is it smart to have a number of languages at 4-6 rating? Im contemplating doing such a thing.

it's all in the book. there's really not much to know about it. Skills->Language skills SR4A p129

As far as i understand the rating of your language skill limits the rating of your social skill when socializing in a foreign language.
Intuition comes in to play when your making a language test to see whether you understand the other guy or not, att least i assume that the language test is like any other normal test and you roll the linked attribute+the skill, otherwise the tresholds on that test are pretty crazy.

Since Linguasofts are so cheap and can be bought almost instantly, there's usually much better things to spend your Karma/BP on.

Some languages, IIRC by canon, are not available on linguasofts.

Which ones aren't available? The only one I can think of was Or'ket wasn't available beyond rating 3 in 3rd edition.

The myriard used in Lagos, because no-one really bothers. And so should you: Get a local to translate and telepathy spells, otherwise communicate with weapons.

Of course, if you are an Adept with Linguistics, you can drive your GM insane by getting the frist point for free for all of them. Then use Learning Stimulus Nanites to advance them to 3 for free.

NICE COMBO. Although that's probably at it's most useful for a social adept type, but still I like it. You can also take the linguist quality to boost your free rating 3 languages by 1(2 if your language rating is 4 or higher).

I think Linguistics is one of the coolest adept powers. Not necessarily most powerful... coolest. And I like to throw in the Linguist Quality as well.

I don't have a copy of Street Magic. What's the wording of the Linguistics power?

EDIT: So my adept with Magic 6 and both of the above learns a new language after

(10-6) = 4 hours, divided by 2 = 2 hours if the GM agrees that 'basic learning time' applies to the original adept power test.

Even if not, the base time to get a new Rating is quartered, and extra increases are layered on top.

The Mnemonic Enhancer and Qualia Genware are nice as well for a talkative character.

Eh. I'll stick with the Linguasofts.

The better question is what your language level is considered for improving that language skill. Is it 1 or 3 due to the quality? I'm assuming the learning time reduction is a reduction on the interval for the extended test. So instead of an interval of 1 week, it takes .25 weeks or 42 hours for the interval.

It also depends on if linguistics gives a +2 for learning...

Assuming it's a 42 hour interval, Linquistics gives the +2 for learning, you have an Intuition of 3, and your skill is considered 1.... getting to 6 in a language would take....

2 intervals to go from 1->2
3 intervals to go from 2->3
3 intervals to go from 3->4

So a grand total of 336 hours or 2 weeks. 2 weeks + <10 hours to effectively master a language. Not bad at all.

If you're considered at skill 3....

4 intervals to go from 3->4
5 intervals to go from 4->5
5 intervals to go from 5->6

That takes 588 hours or 24 and a half days + <10 hours to master a language.

Yes, I have thought about which Rating to use when spending Karma, given the Linguist Quality increase. I treat it as being similar to augmentation of a Stat. If one has an implant or other augmentation that increases a Stat from 3 to (5), spending Karma to increase the Stat works on the 3, rather than the 5. (See page 270, SR4A under Improving Attributes.)

The text describing the Language skill increase is unclear as to how to apply the +2. Some people interpret it as going on immediately, others say you have to follow the 1.5 X current skill limitation, even though that mechanism is not explicitly cited.

With the former, the skill progression is as follows:

1(3), 2(4), 3(5), 4(6), 5(7), 6 ( 8 ).

With the latter:

1, 2(3), 3(4), 4(6), 5(7), 6( 8 ).

As the augmented skill maximums is a general rule, there shouldn't be any need for somethink to specifically cite it for it to apply. General rules need only be cited when your making an exception to it IMO(and yes I'm well aware that the quality write-ups in RC don't follow this simple premise).
But i do think that the limit should be house ruled away for this quality so it becomes more usefull.
It is after all much more important for a face to get to treat his rating 1 language skills as rating 3 then geting to treat rating 4:s as rating 6

By the way now that we're in the subject of language skill, i assume that native language doesn't limit social skills at all so a social adept actually gets some use out of his improved social ability power(s).
But i don't actually see anyway for a character to get to use rating 9 and 10 social skills while speaking a foreign language, as language skill max out at 8 for those who have the linguistic quality, others are even worse of maxim at 6.

Aptitude Language(German)?

You could always take Aptitude towards a language, if it was a big hindrance. Or Bilingual to gain another Native language. Can you take Bilingual multiple times, for additional native languages?

Regardless, I thought Adepts powers were modifiers to the dice pool (+X to Social skills) as opposed to adding directly to the social skill (Negotiation 6->7). Language skills only limit the dice from the social skills themselves, not any modifiers. Someone with Charisma 5, tailored pheremones (3), and Negotiation 5 working in Japanese (3) would get 3+3+5 = 11 dice for negotiation tests.

Although, the example in the book (SR4 page 135) only rolls a number of dice equal to the skill rating (cannot default), Language is still linked to Intuition. For limiting a character’s social skills when using a non-native language, I always compare it to Language + Intuition. This way, even if a character does not know the language at all, he/she can still employ social skills limited by his/her Intuition. As we all know, social skills are not entirely verbal.

It's the Linguist Quality that does the modification, not the adept power Linguistics, and it is worded as "modifies the rating of any Language skill the character possesses by +2."

But in English (his native) he only gets 8?* Somehow I doubt that's how that works.
Also you did the math wrong.
5+5+3+3 = 16

*13 if you do the math right.

That depends on the power. Improved Ability is a direct increase to the skill, Kinesics is an increase to the dice pools.

And speaking as someone who actually is a linguist, a 3 is about on par with most native speakers, most of us speak at about the 2 level (facts) most of the time and occaisionally move up into the 3 range (opinions, feelings, etc). 4 is when you start getting into more advanced aspects of language like in depth science, politics, etc.

The Improved Ability set of powers explisitly raise the rating of the skill(s) you have the power(s) for.


While i agree on on adding the intuition to test to see whether you can undertand what the other person is saying, adding it to the social skill limit too makes that a pretty meaningless limit.

Uh, where are you getting the extra +5 from?

Negotiation (5 limited to 3 by Japanese language skill) + Tailored Pheremones (3) + Charisma (5) = 11 in my example.

Native language does not limit social dice, so if they were working in their native English, they'd have 5 + 3 + 5 = 13.

Actual linguistics grad student here. This thread makes me want to shoot myself in the head. LANGUAGE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY

So then enlighten us, please

Does anything in this game work the way it does in real life?

It's a Shadowrun thing.

Language skills are about the only thing that does. Even in the real world, they have various tests with similar grading levels to determine language proficiency. For those who work for the American government (military, FBI, NSA, State Department, etc), the test is the DLPT which does use levels of 1, 2, 3, etc with a plus in between (i.e. 0, 0+, 1, 1+, 2, 2+, etc) and as I stated, level 2 is facts and where most people speak at on a daily basis, 3 is more advanced like opinions, feelings, etc, 4 is even more advanced and very technical level kinds of stuff, the "geek speak" if you will where even native speakers are going "whoa, hold up, can you explain that?"

As a matter of interest, what level would this system assign to PhD level discussion, say of Archaeology?

Ah, there. A bunch of numbers (5 this, 3 that, 5 this, 3 that) turning into another string (3 + 3 + 5 = 11) didn't really have any explanation. "Negotiation (5 limited to 3 by Japanese language skill)" makes it clear now.

Edit:
Not that I agree with this assessment. A 1 in negotiation with a 1 in a language skill somehow not limiting your ability regardless of which language you're yammering in doesn't make any sense.

That sounds more like a function of vocabulary rather than language.

Those aren't functionally distinct categories, in this context.

If you have ever been in a foreign country trying to haggle in a bazaar in a language that you are not at all fluent in, then maybe you would appreciate that your understanding of the local culture and one-on-one commerce etiquette is far more relevant to negotiating, as oppose to the ability to verbally communicate coherently.
If your language skill is high enough to convey the concepts of what is being negotiated, then Language should not limit Negotiation is such a case.

Hate to burst your bubble there, Jizmack, but culture and language are intrinsicaly tied. Let me give you a few examples:
"Eat crow"
"Dead as a doornail"
"Not the brightest bulb in the box"
"Low man on the totem pole"

These are very American sayings that have spread a bit more throughout the rest of the English speaking world due to the prevalence of both American TV and movies, but non-native speakers would have to have such sayings explained. Or a more relevant in game example, try talking to anyone who doesn't play Shadowrun about the Awakened, the Emerged, mundanes, etc and they'll look at you funny.

As for your question about PhD level discussion stuff, pbangarth, that kind of stuff would be 4 and above on the DLPT system. There's other tests out there with comparable levels, such as the civilian one for Mandarin Chinese is the HSK.

Check the rules on Languages, if you have a 1 in a language, you can almost never be understood at all (it's a Intuition + Language test to convey basic ideas).

A 1 in a language is like one semester of High School Spanish. You know a few words, but can't string them together into sentences yet.

From the text you quote, "convey basic ideas", and my experience as a traveller using new languages, a skill of 1 would allow the following:

- Where is the bathroom?
- I am hungry.
- When does the bus leave?
- How much for that gun in the window?
- Move, and you die.

This is most likely reinforced by having some sort of weapon pointed in your direction.

So you get a +2 for that check?

Sure, of course, if you fail the test, you think the person says "Move or die"

These are all abstract phrases and of little to no relevance when haggling in a bazaar.

Yes, you are correct and I never meant to say that culture and language are exclusively separate things, but they are not exactly the same thing, either. I suppose a better choice of words would have been Etiquette and Language.
You may not know how to say “good day, sir” in a local language, but with simple observation you can learn the proper gesture to imply it. People tend to forgive you for not speaking their language (and are actually impressed if you do), but they will not generally forgive you if you offend them by not knowing their customs.

Except for Parisians.

is that where George Sr. gave the upside down peace sign? For some reason i thought that was the middle east, like lebanon?

Edited... Never Mind...

The Language Test is indeed like any other test... Language Skill + Intuition + Specializations (If Any)... against the Threshold based upon the conversation...