War, HUH! It's out on pdf Options

[hobgoblin]

reflex trigger and maxpower ammo, iirc (given the references in SR2 about them being folded into the basic stats).

[hermit]

1st Edition IPE grenades also, to deal with the problems hand grenades did litle actual damage.

[Sengir]

I am not saying I am offended by it. I am saying our rather sensitive laws might be triggered (it was triggered by a crossed out swastika symbol that said "STOP NAZIS" after all). And since Pegasus is a publishing company, that could easily end them up in deep shit.

Agreed. And if I agree with Hermit, that's definitve proof something is not quite right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

And all the legal implications and moral outrage aside, I think it's simply a poor job to waste the potential of this setting for some cheap shock effects. And that IS the writer's fault (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If a chef orders a cake baked, and the kichen boy burns it and fills it with nails instead of raisin cream, is this the chef's fault?

If the chef hired a carpenter as kitchen boy? Yes

I disagree with SoftWeave, which ENHANCES the indestructo-troll problems.

If you abuse the hell out of armor rules, a character can already become invincible to bullets. With SoftWeave it can become more bulletproof than bulletproof...no biggie
But being able to equip Joe Average with a ballistic vest + helmet is great.

[Daishi]

Check out SoftWeave armour for something quite unbalancing.

What am I missing about the armor rules that SoftWeave radically changes? If Tailoring for Body x 3 is allowed, then high body characters should run out of compatible armor before the SoftWeave can even kick in. If Tailoring is not allowed, this is just a less efficient alternative that gets the same issue. As long as you can't harden personal armor, nothing makes you genuinely bullet proof when the full auto starts up.

[Stormdrake]

My question is, is anything broken as presented when compared not only to the RAW of previous books but the new rules in W! that modify the old RAW?

[Laodicea]

Soooo....Do I buy this book yet? Not seeing a lot of great comments about it so far...

[Stahlseele]

My question is, is anything broken as presented when compared not only to the RAW of previous books but the new rules in W! that modify the old RAW?

The software that allows you to place several arrows/grenades on one target and add their damage cumulative?

[Kagetenshi]

If you buy the wrong ingredients for a cake, who is to blame for the outcome? The seller of the ingredients, or the one who chose a buy iron filings instead of flour?

It sounds more like what's being described is choosing to use a grocer who is obviously stocking iron filings in the bin marked "flour". I'm assuming they told the writer that this was for Shadowrun material rather than just generically describing the setting and what they wanted.

~J

[Grinder]

WORK BRINGS FREEDOM
Oswiecim was under a spiritual barrier for a number of years. Oswiecim was home to Auschwitz-Birkenau, the most well known of the Nazi party’s concentration camps. During the Holocaust, 1.1 million people died within its walls. This led it to become one of the most haunted places on the planet. Ghosts of all shapes and sizes dwelled within, frightening out or murdering all residents of Oswiecim. Because of the sheer magnitude of the haunting, a great number of other things found home there. For the inclined occult investigator, Auschwitz-Birkenau is a treasure trove. It’s also a remarkably dangerous trap. Earlier this year, an entrepreneur named Tetsuo Shuumatsu hired a cabal of sorcerers, charging them with the removal of the barrier. He’s an arms dealer, one who specializes in the weapons necessary to take down ghosts. With such an infestation of ghosts, only a silly buyer would hesitate to pay top dollar for his wares. His greed opened this treasure trove to the public, allowing those without a sense of self-preservation to have a unique opportunity to drudge for necromantic artifacts.
The town proper is effectively still a town, albeit a town inhabited by the angry and hungry dead.  They don’t take kindly to the living, but aren’t necessarily hostile unless provoked. Many are simply living out echoes of their past existences as harmless villagers.

Just noticed that. Didn't know that the good ol' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) isn't used any longer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif)

[Mäx]

I disagree with SoftWeave, which ENHANCES the indestructo-troll problems.

Except that the tank Troll is allready wearing a max amount of armor you can get.

[hermit]

Agreed. And if I agree with Hermit, that's definitve proof something is not quite right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

And all the legal implications and moral outrage aside, I think it's simply a poor job to waste the potential of this setting for some cheap shock effects. And that IS the writer's fault

Agree (on both accounts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ).

If you abuse the hell out of armor rules, a character can already become invincible to bullets. With SoftWeave it can become more bulletproof than bulletproof...no biggie
But being able to equip Joe Average with a ballistic vest + helmet is great.

That's true. It remains ridiculous that you need special armor for this, but there you go.

It sounds more like what's being described is choosing to use a grocer who is obviously stocking iron filings in the bin marked "flour". I'm assuming they told the writer that this was for Shadowrun material rather than just generically describing the setting and what they wanted.

That's what I do, too. He just didn't make any effort AND cracked a cheap, frat boy style kind of fart joke. Is there ANY lectoring happening?

Also, do the writers still stop by here or have they withdrawn to the new and improved 'official' forums to sulk?

Just noticed that. Didn't know that the good ol' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) isn't used any longer.

We should be happy they didn't write ComStarCredits (or whatever the currency in BT is called these days).

Except that the tank Troll is allready wearing a max amount of armor you can get.

Not if you abuse the hell out of Gel Packs and all this +x/+y stuff.

[Grinder]

We should be happy they didn't write ComStarCredits (or whatever the currency in BT is called these days).

Made my day! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Critias]

Also, do the writers still stop by here or have they withdrawn to the new and improved 'official' forums to sulk?

There are a few of us who still check in (though I had nothing to do with War!)...but, to be frank, I often wonder why I bother, and I'm certainly not surprised more of them don't swing by.

[hermit]

You see, I wonder why I bothered to buy War. I hope you don'T expect praise for such a product. I really wonder if this is what we can expect from you guys now.

Maybe you should consider putting more work into quality and less effort into sulking and complaining that Bobby Said Evil Things. And maybe look for writers who know Shadowrun from D20 Modern. Which the current crop of BattleTech dropouts obviously don't.

[Critias]

You see, I wonder why I bothered to buy War. I hope you don'T expect praise for such a product. I really wonder if this is what we can expect from you guys now.

Maybe you should consider putting more work into quality and less effort into sulking and complaining that Bobby Said Evil Things. And maybe look for writers who know Shadowrun from D20 Modern. Which the current crop of BattleTech dropouts obviously don't.

I understand you're ranting a bit to make yourself feel better, but do me a favor to take a second to calm down instead of just lashing out blindly. I'm not a developer, I'm not in charge of hiring and firing other writers, and I just said quite clearly that I didn't write anything for War!, so I'm not sure why you're so damned eager to pee in my general direction, okay? I will gladly let you know exactly what I've written of upcoming sourcebooks when they hit shelves, just like I'll gladly point you towards any of my posts or fiction pieces right here on DS, if you've got any more questions about me mistaking SR for any other game. In fact, I'll even take the time to highlight appropriately my part in any leaked conversations you've read, so you can see how much "sulking" and "complaining" I'm doing.

Save your hostility for the ones you're mad at, buddy.

All I did was take a second to answer your question, and let you know that a few of us old timers -- guys like me and Bull, who were Dumpshockers, God bless us, before we were involved in the game in any official capacity -- still come here from time to time. If the above response is what someone can expect when they take the time to answer a question from you...do you really wonder why less of us are around?

[Prime Mover]

Soooo....Do I buy this book yet? Not seeing a lot of great comments about it so far...

It's got a few highlights but for once the critics aren't blowing things too out of proportion it's got a few glaring stinkers in it.

Depends on your level of fandom and how willing you are to overlook a few things or be prepared to touch them up yourself. I got no problem house ruling/bending what needs it.

[Doc Chase]

I understand you're ranting a bit to make yourself feel better, but do me a favor to take a second to calm down instead of just lashing out blindly. I'm not a developer, I'm not in charge of hiring and firing other writers, and I just said quite clearly that I didn't write anything for War!, so I'm not sure why you're so damned eager to pee in my general direction, okay? I will gladly let you know exactly what I've written of upcoming sourcebooks when they hit shelves, just like I'll gladly point you towards any of my posts or fiction pieces right here on DS, if you've got any more questions about me mistaking SR for any other game. In fact, I'll even take the time to highlight appropriately my part in any leaked conversations you've read, so you can see how much "sulking" and "complaining" I'm doing.

Save your hostility for the ones you're mad at, buddy.

All I did was take a second to answer your question, and let you know that a few of us old timers -- guys like me and Bull, who were Dumpshockers, God bless us, before we were involved in the game in any official capacity -- still come here from time to time. If the above response is what someone can expect when they take the time to answer a question from you...do you really wonder why less of us are around?

To be honest, did you read back your initial response? The 'I wonder why I even bother' schtick only serves to make things worse.

[Stormdrake]

The software that allows you to place several arrows/grenades on one target and add their damage cumulative?

Is your point about the software or how it is implemented? Software very similar to this is in use today for missiles and other barrage type attacks. How it is implemented falls under the new rules for large dice pools does it not? Does the description for the software and the rules for large dice pools conflict?

[Mäx]

Is your point about the software or how it is implemented? Software very similar to this is in use today for missiles and other barrage type attacks. How it is implemented falls under the new rules for large dice pools does it not? Does the description for the software and the rules for large dice pools conflict?

Why would that software interact in any way with the high dicepool rules?

[imperialus]

It's got a few highlights but for once the critics aren't blowing things too out of proportion it's got a few glaring stinkers in it.

Depends on your level of fandom and how willing you are to overlook a few things or be prepared to touch them up yourself. I got no problem house ruling/bending what needs it.

Yeah, like any supplement, for any role playing game since the 3 little brown books you're going to have to tweak stuff to make it work the way you want it to. Is War one of their finest pieces? No, probably not. Does it suck? Not at all.

1) Bitching about the fluff: Yes there are some oddities in it. Quite frankly who gives a damn. Shadowrun has a massive, metaplot and yes, CGL has had to hire some new writers who aren't necessarily as familiar with said metaplot as some of the previous ones. Auschwitz is probably the worst of the lot, but as others have pointed out there have been a ton of incidences in the past where the "rules" have been broken for the sake of plot. Besides, it bloody well makes sense that Auschwitz would have some insane stuff going on in the astral around it.

2) Bitching about rules: Is there some stuff that can be broken? Sure there is. There always has been. Pornomancers, Agent Smith armies, Bloodzilla, Mr. Lucky are all insanely broken things that have been around since the core rulebook was released. HP ammo isn't even that bad. Hell they're not even as bad as EX-Explosive and that's been sitting on the books since SR3. Christ if you've been GMing Shadowrun this long and never had a "Look guys I know you can break this, but do you want to?" conversation with your players then either you have the best players in the world who would never in their life think of powergaming, or you've already been running a campaign filled with insane one trick ponies anyhow. Either way, War isn't going to make that any worse.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Is your point about the software or how it is implemented? Software very similar to this is in use today for missiles and other barrage type attacks. How it is implemented falls under the new rules for large dice pools does it not? Does the description for the software and the rules for large dice pools conflict?

So you point is that it isn't batshit crazy to synchronize arrows fired by bows for double damage because you don't have the book?

What am I missing about the armor rules that SoftWeave radically changes?

Mobility Upgrade is obsolete.

[Stormdrake]

Why would that software interact in any way with the high dicepool rules?

I was thinking of its application for/with gernades. The software allows you to drop several gernades in one location, correct? The large dice pool rules and/or the gernade rules address the damage caused by multiple gernades and figuring out the damage. Earlier in this thread someone posted that such attacks take the DV of one gernade and then halves the others before adding them after calculating the decrease in their DV from distance.

I have no idea about the applicatiion of this software with arrows though.

Hey, if I am wrong no biggie just curious.

Edit: I pulled up my copy and reread the description and it does conflict with the rules I am talking about. So, yes it is in need of some work.

[Critias]

To be honest, did you read back your initial response? The 'I wonder why I even bother' schtick only serves to make things worse.

I'm pretty sure those six words from me aren't to blame for the attitude he's showing, thanks. I'm sorry if I let a little snark slip into my response, but it's not like his initial question was exactly open and friendly, either.

Reread this thread and the general attitude being shown in it, look at the vitriol even non-War writers are getting here, and ask yourself if you wouldn't wonder why you bothered, too, okay? It's only natural for the official crew to hang out at the official forum (wouldn't it look pretty silly if DS got all the developer posts, and NOT the official forum? And we've all only got so much time a day to hang out on the internet, so it makes sense for that time to be dedicated primarily to the forum we're expected at)...but when the attitude is like the attitude's been here on DS of late, it makes even more sense to avoid the place and hang out at the official SR joint, instead, doesn't it?

I'm not defending War. I don't even have a copy of it myself, yet, because money's tight around the holidays and it's gonna have to wait 'till payday. It's clear some folks aren't happy with it...but if some folks here want the writers to hang out here again, maybe they could offer up some feedback that doesn't end with "LOLOL Battletech rejects derp derp derp." There's some helpful stuff in this thread, sure, but the signal:noise ratio is getting all out of wack with a few people.

Criticism is one thing, and I know -- once any of my stuff hits shelves -- I, at least, welcome it. I've never been shy about the stuff I wrote for Privateer Press, or Comfy Chair, or anyone else, and I'm going to welcome comments on my Shadowrun work, just as much. But when those comments consist of calling people scabs, rejects, and idiots, don't be surprised when people don't want to read it any more.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Bitching about the fluff: Yes there are some oddities in it. Quite frankly who gives a damn. Shadowrun has a massive, metaplot and yes, CGL has had to hire some new writers who aren't necessarily as familiar with said metaplot as some of the previous ones.

If the alternative to buying a book is staring at the wall, like for long flights, that might be worth considering. (In fact, I went with some Jason Bourne. It only beat the wall slightly)
For an RPG supplement which is supposed to stimulate positive creativity in GMs and immersion for Players? No buy.

Auschwitz is probably the worst of the lot, but as others have pointed out there have been a ton of incidences in the past where the "rules" have been broken for the sake of plot. Besides, it bloody well makes sense that Auschwitz would have some insane stuff going on in the astral around it.

Auschwitz served as an example for highlevel BGC and Mana Warps for some time. Still, it is a memorial from long before the awakening. It doesn't suddenly become Haunted House with Loot. And while "rules" are one thing, respecting the setting is another.

Either way, War isn't going to make that any worse.

There's a mental disconnect here.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Reread this thread and the general attitude being shown in it, look at the vitriol even non-War writers are getting here, and ask yourself if you wouldn't wonder why you bothered, too, okay? It's only natural for the official crew to hang out at the official forum (wouldn't it look pretty silly if DS got all the developer posts, and NOT the official forum? And we've all only got so much time a day to hang out on the internet, so it makes sense for that time to be dedicated primarily to the forum we're expected at)...but when the attitude is like the attitude's been here on DS of late, it makes even more sense to avoid the place and hang out at the official SR joint, instead, doesn't it?

Which is why the official forum was created in the first place, while the FAQ happily answers "Why are there no Catalyst-sponsored Shadowrun forums?" with "Because the fine folks running Dumpshock have been maintaining those forums for many years, and we see no need to duplicate their efforts." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

And the attitude on DS hasn't changed that much lately – if at all, there's probably less flaming than before.