War, HUH! It's out on pdf Options

[Rotbart van Dain...]

To be honest, I think this book needs to be pulled and repurposed. I believe the creative team needs to sit down and ask themselves "what does this book want to be"

IMR most likely can't afford to do that and it looks like nobody responsible does even give a damn. Gamers will still buy it because of the ZOMGWTFBBQ-gear.

Expect the book to hit the printers with autocorrection fixes of typos at most. And if there is a second printing that corrects some things, don't expect an errata – like with Augmentation. (Skimmed through the second printing of Augmentation today at my FLGS, with some fixes not present in the current PDF… of course, those were only partial fixes.)

[sabs]

It's sad.
I've been contemplating doing a Merc game. I was looking forward to War to give me some good jump off points. But from everything I've read this is one of the worse supplements put out for Shadowrun ever. Information about the Military of the World is sorely missed in Shadowrun. Shadowrunners routinely go up against Military and yet we have no information on them.

A book I was going to guarantee buying, has now moved to the, I might just ban it from my games, pile.

[Stormdrake]

Atzlan's seeding of the Sangre del Diablo occured when they where still thinking of heading north to deal with the Denver issue. They did not want to get caught in a two front war because they thought Amazonia was gearing up to come north so they seeded the areas around Bogata with the Sangre del Diablo, counting on the enhanced magical growth to create a biological threat to keep Amazonia out of the region. I do think Atzlan got more then they planned for though.

How is W! going to tie into the MilSpec source book next year? I would hope that some of the things missing in W! may be added to it even though is sounds like it is going to be a gear book.

[sabs]

If you are worried about a highly magical, nature aligned country coming after you. Is your first thought for a line of defense a Highly magical Plant?

[apple]

Is there any chance that some of this reviews/feedback/critique will find its way into the public and official SR4 forum?

SYL

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Do you honestly think that would make any difference whatsoever?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

First of all, he's a non-native english speaker. And you know what editing is for? Treat hermit's post as the raw draft submitted to the editing staff whose job it should be to fix all the errors, mistakes and oversights.

Point Taken Grinder...
It is just annoying that he bashes everyone else for it, and yet he is guilty of the exact same thing...
Apologies... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[sabs]

Point Taken Grinder...
It is just annoting that he bashes everyone else for it, and he is guilty of the same thing...
Apologies... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

actually he's only bashed CGL for it in Printed Materials that they are 'selling' as official Shadowrun material.

[apple]

Do you honestly think that would make any difference whatsoever?

Unsure ... perhaps.

But to be honest, I just wonder what the reactoin of JH and the rest of the crew would be.

SYL

[Doc Chase]

Do you honestly think that would make any difference whatsoever?

If it didn't, then why are we complaining - period?

If it is as Critias said and the writers lurk on the official boards, then it would do well post a critique there. I'd personally go a step further and post a petition to save the editing process. Perhaps I shall do just that.

[sabs]

Why the hell did they Stat Thor shots?
Thor Shots should have been. Auto hit, Auto Dead GM plot device. Not, let me roll 100 to hit dice, soak 70DV

[Stahlseele]

If it didn't, then why are we complaining - period?

Because it makes a difference TO US . . and fuck everything else!

[Doc Chase]

Why the hell did they Stat Thor shots?
Thor Shots should have been. Auto hit, Auto Dead GM plot device. Not, let me roll 100 to hit dice, soak 70DV

That and nuclear weapons. Neither should have been statted.

You do not stat God, as once you do he ceases to be God.

[Tycho]

Unsure ... perhaps.

But to be honest, I just wonder what the reactoin of JH and the rest of the crew would be.

SYL

Thread would be deleted, because it is "undermining his authority as line developer" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But it is like I had imagined, with a Line Developer like this, SR will hit rock bottom in a couple of releases and after that the system is dead.

cya
Tycho

[sabs]

Thread would be deleted, because it is "undermining his authority as line developer" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But it is like I had imagined, with a Line Developer like this, SR will hit rock bottom in a couple of releases and after that the system is dead.

cya
Tycho

Name me 1 product that CGL has put out that was not just a cut/paste job of an older product with just a few rules editings, usually in a bewildering new direction of weird.

[CanRay]

Sigh.. it sounds like between all the Military guys on Dumpshock and the rest of us we could write a better War Supplement than CGL did.

That I would pay to see. Can I write some of the fluff? (Admittedly I'm a civvie puke, but, hell, I can fake being an Ad Exec trying to sell weapon systems and such!)

[Stahlseele]

Name me 1 product that CGL has put out that was not just a cut/paste job of an older product with just a few rules editings, usually in a bewildering new direction of weird.

Now that you mention it . .

That I would pay to see. Can I write some of the fluff? (Admittedly I'm a civvie puke, but, hell, I can fake being an Ad Exec trying to sell weapon systems and such!)

Yeah, Frank for the crunch and Bobby for the fluff would be a winning combination with the rest of you folks ^^

[sabs]

Horizon Entertainment Industries brings you!

Desert Wars! Season 5

Now with iLive! Real Time Simsense!

This season has been brought to you by Ares Armaments! Saeder-Krupp Military Industries! And Better Living Through Matrix! A wholly owned subsidiary of Neo-Net.

This year is exciting for us. We've got a great line up.

The Aztechnology Wombats are back! And a popular favorite to make it to the final rounds.
Renraku is fielding a whole new team, the Dynasty Warriors™ who show great promise for a rookie team!

[CanRay]

This message brought to you by Nerps!

Nerps! For Desert Wars!

...

Oh, and GO BLACK DEVILS!

[kzt]

If you are worried about a highly magical, nature aligned country coming after you. Is your first thought for a line of defense a Highly magical Plant?

Naturally. What could possibly go wrong? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

"Those treehuggers never would expect that!"

Unsure ... perhaps.

I'm not even convinced going with a fine comb through the PDF and plastering it with markups & annotations would.

If it didn't, then why are we complaining - period?

Closure.

[Doc Chase]

Closure.

Lies. We aren't coming to terms with a thing, just getting worked up in a lather.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

If you are worried about a highly magical, nature aligned country coming after you. Is your first thought for a line of defense a Highly magical Plant?

Not just any magical plant but a VERY ANGRY highly magical plant. That's a whole other ballgame. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[hermit]

This war has been simmering between the Azzies and the Zonies for a while. Caracas and Venezuela was meant to be a buffer between the two, with Bogota as some sort of 'border city' where everyone could play at being nice while hiding their knives behind their backs.

The flashpoint, it seems, was when the Azzies caught a Zonie black ops team in one of their facilities. I'll have to go back and verify exactly what happened, but the 'gardening' reasoning that Frank offered will work for now. Not 72 hours after the Azzies declared war, the troops started rolling in with full logicstical and administrative support. This suggests it had been in the works for a lot longer. The Azzie teocallis were used in a massive linked blood ritual that suppressed the nature spirits (and nature itself) in the Amazon at the same time, depriving the Zonies of their usual magical backup. However, this would not last.

Aztlan made several gains into Colombia and Amazonian territory, opening the city of Bogota up to the other megacorps. Notables include Horizon, Ares, and S-K. As far as I can tell from here, both armies are in a stalemate.

Thanks, that's a reasonable starter for my map project.

That I would pay to see. Can I write some of the fluff? (Admittedly I'm a civvie puke, but, hell, I can fake being an Ad Exec trying to sell weapon systems and such!)

If you'Re up to it, certainly. I'd provide maps and some more fluff. Anyone else taking?

Please, for all the love that is holy, do not skimp on the editing process or the customer is going to think the production staff isn't taking this seriously. It must be done right.

Given the attitude over errata they display, I actually DO think they aren't taking it seriously.

Is there any chance that some of this reviews/feedback/critique will find its way into the public and official SR4 forum?

Amazon, Battleshop ect. have review sections. I suggest people start there.

But to be honest, I just wonder what the reactoin of JH and the rest of the crew would be.

Bans, I suppose. Reviews that are not 'awesome' from Battleshop and DriveThru might disappear. Hiowever, there's several RPG sites and independent sellers of product, and many have preview pages for the upcoming print. Hardy cannot be everywhere.

That and nuclear weapons. Neither should have been statted.

The real fun part being they waste words and space on a sidebar saying stating nukes makes no sense (p. 159), which then goes on and stats them anyway.

If it didn't, then why are we complaining - period?

Closure.

Nah, it's still phase 2. Trying to write up alt.WAR! is Negotiating.

[Critias]

Just to poke my head in again, it's worth pointing out, I think, that there is a War! thread over on the official SR4 forums, and at least one person (likely a person from, or at least familiar with, this thread, given some of their complaints) is being plenty critical. No one's getting banned, nothing's getting deleted, etc, etc.

If you're going to hate the official forums, at least hate them for a reason. Don't make up bans and deletions and talk about them like they're actually happening, huh?

As long as criticism stays constructive rather than just blatant trolling, I'm sure anyone with something to say about War! is welcome. Whether it happens here or there, though, trust me, you guys. Writers are aware of what's being said, and there's plenty of active listening going on.