War, HUH! It's out on pdf Options

[hermit]

If you're going to hate the official forums, at least hate them for a reason. Don't make up bans and deletions and talk about them like they're actually happening, huh?

Extrapolating from previous known instances of how Hardy deals with criticism. Shouldn't really surprise you.

As long as criticism stays constructive rather than just blatant trolling, I'm sure anyone with something to say about War! is welcome. Whether it happens here or there, though, trust me, you guys. Writers are aware of what's being said, and there's plenty of active listening going on.

Please take Frank as a benchmark. Is what he wrote trolling or constructive criticism?

Also, does that mean there will be maps? Or errata? What are we to expect there?

[Megu]

Man, if it's bad as y'all saying maybe it's good they didn't touch Southeast Asia. I'm also disappointed they didn't do something cool and creative with Somalia. If I ever get my Somali homegurl from back in Minneapolis to start gaming with our group, I bet she could come up with something pretty sweet for it.

I'm guessing Nepal is about the new route to Tibet or something. Kind of interested in a Poland update; have a friend who was talking about doing a game set there. So that could still be useful enough to warrant a purchase. I'm assuming Albuquerque has something to do with a potential broadening of the AvA conflict, and that's gotten at least some coverage before. I kind of want to laud them for at least trying to get new areas in.

And as far as this trolling versus criticism thing goes, I don't even know anymore. I mean, the gaming board on 4chan is less angry and inflammatory than this most of the time. So either this is a really bad book or Dumpshock seriously needs to chill. My instincts say both.

[sabs]

Frank was funny, but it was clear he's plenty biased. That being said, it was clear he was trying to mitigate that bias as much as possible. Which makes how bad his review is.. all that more sad AND funny.

[Doc Chase]

Just to poke my head in again, it's worth pointing out, I think, that there is a War! thread over on the official SR4 forums, and at least one person (likely a person from, or at least familiar with, this thread, given some of their complaints) is being plenty critical. No one's getting banned, nothing's getting deleted, etc, etc.

If you're going to hate the official forums, at least hate them for a reason. Don't make up bans and deletions and talk about them like they're actually happening, huh?

As long as criticism stays constructive rather than just blatant trolling, I'm sure anyone with something to say about War! is welcome. Whether it happens here or there, though, trust me, you guys. Writers are aware of what's being said, and there's plenty of active listening going on.

Actually, there are two threads, and I have parroted my concerns re: editing in one of them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I also stated concerns about losing the actual war in the information for Bogota. Learning about where the hot parties are is great, but there are cruise missles and lighting bolts flying overhead why the hell are you still there

[Critias]

Extrapolating from previous known instances of how Hardy deals with criticism. Shouldn't really surprise you.

Please take Frank as a benchmark. Is what he wrote trolling or constructive criticism?

Also, does that mean there will be maps? Or errata? What are we to expect there?

Hermit, I'm just a freelancer, okay? In fact, according to some of you, I'm just a "scab." So don't expect me to make statements and answer questions that only a line developer can. I can't promise a map or errata, all I can do is deliver on a map or errata I get contracted to do.

All I'm trying to do right now is let you know that yes, there is criticism going on over on the official forum and no one's getting banned for it. Yes, some of us are reading this DS thread as well. Yes, some of us are talking to one another about the criticism that's being made. There really isn't anything else I -- a lowly freelancer who didn't even work on War! -- can say.

[hermit]

I'm guessing Nepal is about the new route to Tibet or something.

No, about natural ressources, because Nepal sits on veins of orichalcum. Huge mountains have lots of space for goods to be farmed!

But see for yourself:

Nepal’s undermanned, underfunded monarchy has been
portrayed as the David against Saeder-Krupp’s Goliath, but since
the  ght’s not over yet, Goliath still has a chance to win. The
fight is about the resources buried in Nepal’s mountains. there’s
orichalcum in them hills, along with iron, lead, zinc, copper, and
the metal that fuels Nepal’s government—gold.

Hermit, I'm just a freelancer, okay? In fact, according to some of you, I'm just a "scab." So don't expect me to make statements and answer questions that only a line developer can. I can't promise a map or errata, all I can do is deliver on a map or errata I get contracted to do.

All I'm trying to do right now is let you know that yes, there is criticism going on over on the official forum and no one's getting banned for it. Yes, some of us are reading this DS thread as well. Yes, some of us are talking to one another about the criticism that's being made. There really isn't anything else I -- a lowly freelancer who didn't even work on War! -- can say.

Okay. I was really only looking for a guideline, though.

As for the map and stuff, I assume you talk about what you will do in reaction? It would be sensible to, at least. If whatever is bing talked about is not beyond a vague idea yet, or you are not allowed to say in public because Jason wants it to be a surprise or whatever, then just say so, okay? I can see you're probably not allowed to tell everything you might know.

Will see to the map on the weekend, if I find the time.

[Megu]

Hermit, I'm just a freelancer, okay? In fact, according to some of you, I'm just a "scab."

I feel like I should say something about this. As a union man that's not a slur I use lightly. He's not strikebreaking for anybody. He's not breaking the lines for his own benefit. The older writers aren't on strike, they just ragequit (and I don't blame them for doing so). So he's not doing harm by going to work, least not the kind of harm that warrants that epithet.

[Doc Chase]

*blink*

Natural orichalcum hasn't been in the earth since '63. It was specifically linked to Halley's Comet.

Wat is dis

[Megu]

Nepal? Monarchy? Do they know the monarchy collapsed a year or two back or is this part of the Did Not Do the Research stuff you guys are talking about?

[Doc Chase]

Nepal? Monarchy? Do they know the monarchy collapsed a year or two back or is this part of the Did Not Do the Research stuff you guys are talking about?

Remember that timelines diverge in 1991 (well, before that but we start really looking at it in '91), so the monarchy may have remained.

[sabs]

Wait
There's Orichalcum in them there hills, but the metal that fuels Nepal's monarcy is GOLD?

wth?

I thought Natural Orichalcum existed?

Course, I'm from the Earthdawn branch, where Orichalcum is made.. from Alchemy and the 5 True Elements.

[hermit]

Not making any of this up, guys. Depressing as it is.

[hobgoblin]

Yeah, Frank for the crunch and Bobby for the fluff would be a winning combination with the rest of you folks ^^

more like a whining combination (the amount of potential poo flinging is staggering).

[Doc Chase]

Not making any of this up, guys. Depressing as it is.

I didn't catch it because I glossed the hotspots. Looks like I'm going to have to rectify that.

Critias, if you're still about - how do you think the line developers feel about getting a file of 'suggested edits'?

[sabs]

About as much as Hillary Clinton wants a dinner invitation from Assange?

[hermit]

Line developers? Who are the other line devs?

[Critias]

Critias, if you're still about - how do you think the line developers feel about getting a file of 'suggested edits'?

My fall semester's over, so I'm working on a Missions adventure, right now; I'll be in and out of the forum, idly, most of the day, just hopping from browser window to Word window and back and forth. I might take a little while to check in, but I am gonna be reading and posting most of the day, most likely.

As far as a suggested edits thing, I know Jason himself set up a subforum over on the official boards specifically for people to submit suggested errata for existing products. That being the case, I don't think there's some moral opposition to hearing about what people would like to see changed, y'know? As far as how he'd feel about it, I'm sure it would be fine.

The only issue I know of (and again, I'm not 100% because I'm out of the loop with War!) is that I don't know if things can be edited before they hit the printers, because I don't know exactly where in the cycle of publication the book is, exactly.

So I don't want to say "Yeah, sure, let Jason know and all the changes will happen and everyone will get a pony ride and then we'll all go get ice cream later, yay!" because for all I know there's already a warehouse full of War! books somewhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I don't want to get hopes up and then see them dashed just because the editing suggestions came too late, y'know?

[Doc Chase]

So I don't want to say "Yeah, sure, let Jason know and all the changes will happen and everyone will get a pony ride and then we'll all go get ice cream later, yay!" because for all I know there's already a warehouse full of War! books somewhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I don't want to get hopes up and then see them dashed just because the editing suggestions came too late, y'know?

Too late. You said ice cream.

[Stahlseele]

more like a whining combination (the amount of potential poo flinging is staggering).

Admit it, it'd be HEAPS of fun to watch ^^

[kzt]

Natural orichalcum hasn't been in the earth since '63. It was specifically linked to Halley's Comet.

To make up another quote from the writer: "Halley's Comet? What?"

[hermit]

As far as a suggested edits thing, I know Jason himself set up a subforum over on the official boards specifically for people to submit suggested errata for existing products.

Seriously? .... okay. It's not your fault. It would be WRONG to lash out at you now. But I'm undecided if this is insulting, hilarious or a signn that Jason acts totally random.

The only issue I know of (and again, I'm not 100% because I'm out of the loop with War!) is that I don't know if things can be edited before they hit the printers, because I don't know exactly where in the cycle of publication the book is, exactly. (...) for all I know there's already a warehouse full of War! books somewhere. I don't want to get hopes up and then see them dashed just because the editing suggestions came too late, y'know?

Okay. You are not honestly saying we should have put this forward earlier, are you?

If this goes to the printers like it is ... well, another book like this and we're all looking for another hobby. Because then SR will be dead.

[Doc Chase]

Okay. You are not honestly saying we should have put this forward earlier, are you?

If this goes to the printers like it is, I wouldn't expect it to sell all that well.

I'm of two mindss. One, I would like to see these errors corrected before precious paper is used and precious nuyen spent to acquire it.

On the other hand, I am hoping that the fans posting edits is not the editing structure for the product.

[hermit]

On the other hand, I am hoping that the fans posting edits is not the editing structure for the product.

Maybe I should register on the official forums and post a link to the MSN help page detailing how to use the word spellchecck function? That might be a lot of help already, getting CGL away from the idea of post-release editing (and then ignoring errata).

[Critias]

Seriously? .... okay. It's not your fault. It would be WRONG to lash out at you now. But I'm undecided if this is insulting, hilarious or a signn that Jason acts totally random.

I don't know which of the above you'll decide it is, but part of it is right here. Make up your own mind, laugh your head off, or submit some errata. I'm just trying to spread the word that the subforum is there, so that (a) people can use it if they want to help compile errata, and (b) to mention it as an example that, from what I can see, constructive criticism is welcome.

Okay. You are not honestly saying we should have put this forward earlier, are you?

Listen, Hermit, I don't know if you've got a beef with me because I'm a "scab," because I'm the face of some evil corporate mastermind you hate, or what, but I'm really feeling like you're -- purposefully or otherwise -- twisting everything I say.

All I was saying is that I don't know, okay? I wasn't in on War! so I don't know if it's too late for proposed edits to change anything or not. I'm being up front about that as I answer someone's question, that's all. I don't know how you could read that as me somehow blaming you guys for not being quick enough on the draw, it's just me being fucking honest and not knowing if the thing's already on its way to print or not.

Doc asked how suggested edits would be taken, and I answered as honestly as I could. Given the developer encouragement for errata, I don't think the suggestions would be taken poorly. Given my lack of knowledge on the publishing timetable, though, I was just being transparent about how I don't know if it's too late for them to do any good.

[Kagetenshi]

Remember that timelines diverge in 1991 (well, before that but we start really looking at it in '91), so the monarchy may have remained.

'86 at the latest, with the non-resignation of Warren Burger.

~J