War, HUH! It's out on pdf Options

[otakusensei]

I actually don't really have anything against the writer of the Auschwitz section, except I think he might have considered what he was writing. But I do have a problem with CGL actually using it, and printing it as is.

David Hill Jr. has made some poor choices in regards his working on Shadowrun, but a lot of what is wrong with his work can be attributed to the development staff at CGL. Of course, some of the blame is on him for his lack of understanding but I'm not going to fault him making an attempt. A job is a job, even with CGL's track record of paying their freelancers. The poor quality of that section and the decreasing quality of the line in general is a direct reflection on Jason Hardy's inability to perform his primary function as line dev. It's too bad that he's effectively above reproach as long as Randall Bill and Loren Coleman are in charge.

And just a note for the theorists out there, I honestly don't believe that has anything to do with their brand of underwear. It doesn't take a church to make someone corrupt or incompetent, people are capable of that all on their own. And sometimes they run role playing game companies.

[Grinder]

I agree that the treatment Auschwitz got wasn't to my liking, but I think claiming that those six paragraphs alone are to blame for Shadowrun "becoming" D&D with guns is as silly and hyperbolic as the folks implying (or outright stating) that the writer of that section is some a Nazi sympathizer. He took a chunk of Europe that was full of angry ghosts in SoE and turned it into a chunk of Europe that's full of angry ghosts in War!, but now PCs maybe kind of have some halfway profitable, Shadowrunnery, reason to go there. Is it a great reason? No, not really. But I'm sure that was his intent, not anything sinister or setting-shattering.

I'd say CanRay was more referring to the new guns'n'toys of the book and not the Auschwitz-themed attempt of an adventure hook.

[hermit]

And just a note for the theorists out there, I honestly don't believe that has anything to do with their brand of underwear. It doesn't take a church to make someone corrupt or incompetent, people are capable of that all on their own. And sometimes they run role playing game companies.

The reasons for corruption vary. Be it that it's about clan, about family, about friendship, about membership in a fraternity, about ethnicity, or about religion. It's not calling out all Mormons to say that SOME of them stick together in a way that you can only call corrupt. It's not particular to Mormons either. But neither are they immune from this on principle. Corruption can crystallise around any kind of tight-knit group. A parish is as likely as anything else.

[CanRay]

I'd say CanRay was more referring to the new guns 'n' toys of the book and not the Auschwitz-themed attempt of an adventure hook.

Yeah, I never expected War! to be much more than development of the storyline further with Aztlan going Warmongering again (Which, apparently, it failed), and being a book full of toys and such that my group will look over, drool, and realize they can never, ever have, while I, as a GM, can. And use to remind them that they're supposed to be Disposable Black Ops Agents for Corporate Espionage, not picking fights with the Big Boys.

*Sighs* I wish I could have gotten in during the old days...

[hermit]

The fun part is: Apart from the Aztlan/Amazonia war, CGL is offering a product that pretty much is what War! wants to be. It's called Fields of Fire and a .pdf release of an old 2E sourcebook. The rules need an upgrade, and the stuff in there generally is a lot less LOLUBER than in War!, but from the fluff and background it really, really delivers.

Of course, buying it would reward CGL indirectly for producing the turd War! is (and proceeding down this way).

*Sighs* I wish I could have gotten in during the old days...

I miss them. Back when people like Findley or Sargent were writing for the line. Actual authors. People who had a professional attitude. Unlike the corrupt clique we are cursed with today.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The problem with that premise is that Shadowrunners on a regular basis steal stuff much better guarded than "toys they can never, ever have". If you can carry it in a bag, they will.

So expect rating 10 commlinks soon.

[Doc Chase]

The problem with that premise is that Shadowrunners on a regular basis steal stuff much better guarded than "toys they can never, ever have". If you can carry it in a bag, they will.

So expect rating 10 commlinks soon.

Thankfully they do degrade - but I've never really known the rank and file to have SOTA anything, given the military R&D/purchasing process.

[Stahlseele]

Degrade?
So the SOTA Rules are back?

[Doc Chase]

Degrade?
So the SOTA Rules are back?

From what I recall, yes - milspec stuff over rating 6 degrades down to 6, but I'll doublecheck the numbers before calling it gospel.

I'm pretty ill right now, so it may be delirium talking. Time to go writing!

[Stahlseele]

From what I recall, yes - milspec stuff over rating 6 degrades down to 6, but I'll doublecheck the numbers before calling it gospel.

I'm pretty ill right now, so it may be delirium talking. Time to go writing!

i eagerly await your written stuff . .
delirium and other consciousness changing circumstances make for some good writings ^^

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Thankfully they do degrade

Software only.

but I've never really known the rank and file to have SOTA anything, given the military R&D/purchasing process.

Device Rating 5 was indeed pretty nice for military vehicles. The new ratings are mostly ridiculous.

Funny thing, though: Unwired lists ICs rated 8 – War! tells you that there is no better rating than 6.

[Doc Chase]

Software only.

That would explain where I saw it, then. I'll have to really sit down with the book and see a workaround for that.

[Sengir]

So, I'm hearing a whole bunch of reason to not buy this product on PDF. Am I right?

Should it go back into the oven and bake for awhile longer until done?

Correcting the typos and rewording some things would already do a lot, but other issues go deeper. Like the missing structure, or stuff which simply does not belong. When writing a longer text, first thing you usually do is creating the TOC, and at that point somebody should have asked questions like "Bogota Culture? In a warzone?" or "shouldn't those hotspots be actual warzones?"...

[Mäx]

The rules need an upgrade, and the stuff in there generally is a lot less LOLUBER than in War!,

What in WAR is LOLUBER, except for the stuff runners will never have(ie. orbital weapons and their ilk)
I personally found the gear chapter to be really nice, with lots of nice new toys for runners and that's why I'm eagerly awaiting MillSpec Tech.

[Doc Chase]

Apparently the rating 10 programs, which I would agree with.

I still have problems thinking that the military gets bleeding edge stuff when they're still running Windows 98 on their computers in the machine shop. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[sabs]

If anything
The Corps should be running Bleeding Edge stuff.
They are afterall the ones developing and testing the stuff.

[hermit]

What in WAR is LOLUBER, except for the stuff runners will never have(ie. orbital weapons and their ilk)
I personally found the gear chapter to be really nice, with lots of nice new toys for runners and that's why I'm eagerly awaiting MillSpec Tech.

Pretty much everything. Armor piercing flechette, battle rifles, and all those uber vehicles ... the rating 10 matrix stuff might be acceptable, but seems not very thought out. The Slow spell ist the dumbest thing to add ever, and mind over matter isn't so much better. Really, haven't you been following this thread?

YMMV. Maybe you want SR mages to be Neo, able to stop any bullet they want. I don't.

[Mäx]

Pretty much everything. Armor piercing flechette, battle rifles, and all those uber vehicles ... the rating 10 matrix stuff might be acceptable, but seems not very thought out. The Slow spell ist the dumbest thing to add ever, and mind over matter isn't so much better. Really, haven't you been following this thread?

YMMV. Maybe you want SR mages to be Neo, able to stop any bullet they want. I don't.

Only think out of those i agree as being OP is the slow spell, witch is just stupid.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I still have problems thinking that the military gets bleeding edge stuff when they're still running Windows 98 on their computers in the machine shop.

That was an old Shadowrun Meme that died with SR4 – only to rear it's undead horse-head with War.

[Stahlseele]

Hey, the undead Warhorse was my idea <.<

[hermit]

Only think out of those i agree as being OP is the slow spell, witch is just stupid.

Very, yes. It's certainly the worst offender there for me too.

[Doc Chase]

Very, yes. It's certainly the worst offender there for me too.

I dunno, the AP flechettes give me pause. Those are techincally called 'bullets'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Of course, Slow's impact is pretty limited. (pi)

Take Recharge: A few Capacitor&Spirit Farms later, the world is supplied entirely with clean energy.

[hermit]

That's STUPID, but it's not that overpowered. It's not like they're always instant kill munitions, just as slow is the total immunity to bullets.

Of course, Slow's impact is pretty limited. (pi)

Take Recharge: A few Capacitor&Spirit Farms later, the world is supplied entirely with clean energy.

Yes, but that would require something like consequential world building, and CGL seems incapable of that anyway.

[Sengir]

Apparently the rating 10 programs, which I would agree with.

IMO a 1-10 scale is significantly better than the old 1-6, it allows both "oh shit" and finer granularities.

Recharge is still limited by OR, a huge capacitor could easily have around 20.

Slow on the other hand...an impenetrable physical barrier (ok, impenetrable until it has soaked 200 kilos of lead per Spellcasting hit) at best, a giant can of worms at worst. Plus I'd really like to know how hitting this spell's AOE in the terminal phase of a high-altitude jump is supposed to be helpful for paratroopers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)