War, HUH! It's out on pdf Options

[fistandantilus4....]

Apparently the rating 10 programs, which I would agree with.

I still have problems thinking that the military gets bleeding edge stuff when they're still running Windows 98 on their computers in the machine shop. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Navy is still getting rid of M-60s. My Dad used those in Vietnam. I got trained on it before the M-240. From what I hear, the army is supposed to have all the good stuff but that might just be more of "the grass is always greener". The spec ops guys do get all the good stuff though. Ridiculous amounts of money on their gear.

[fistandantilus4....]

Back when people like Findley or Sargent were writing for the line. Actual authors. People who had a professional attitude. Unlike the corrupt clique we are cursed with today.

I've said it before, hopefully won't have to say it again - having issues with a book/product is just fine. Slamming the authors is not. Many of them are Users here.

Also, I will point Carl Sargent co-authored Black Madonna which high lights the much maligned Leonardo. Tir Tairngire is one of the more heatedly debated sourcebooks, written by Nigel Findley. Not everything from the past is gold (depending on tastes, YMMV), and not everything from the new guys is bad. If you don't like an author, that's just fine. You can give your recommendations without name calling.

[hermit]

Fair enough. The 'corrupt' was out of line. I'll lay off that.

I never said Sargent and Findley produced only the best in SR writing. However, their work was professional, as in of such a nature that it could be presented to a normal publisher and meet normal standards. War!, not so much.

But the work in War! certainly is not in any way up to the standards even for weekly assignments in university, not to mention publication.

[BishopMcQ]

Sengir--Based on the table from p. 183, I'd be hard pressed to go past an 8 for Object Resistance, but since the table gets vague after 5+, it becomes very open to GM adjudication.

As far as Slow is concerned, the way I read it, everything within the area of effect is slowed down, which means that the paratroopers start falling very slowly immediately (a la Feather Fall) and then stop sustaining it when they reach the ground. A really narrow view on the wording could be said that it only works on blasts/bullets coming from above the user. Because the spell saps energy relative to the manasphere, a blast which was parallel--two people shooting at each other--is unchanged, but one towards the manasphere--sniper in building shooting down at a target--is slowed.

If the runners had a large hill nearby (like rapelling down a cliff) then the manasphere may bend to create a pocket of defense from lateral gunfire.

(This reading is purely meant to provide GMs with a semi-logical argument for nerfing the spell as written rather than handwaving it out.)

[Doc Chase]

Navy is still getting rid of M-60s. My Dad used those in Vietnam. I got trained on it before the M-240. From what I hear, the army is supposed to have all the good stuff but that might just be more of "the grass is always greener". The spec ops guys do get all the good stuff though. Ridiculous amounts of money on their gear.

They do, yes. But they're the ones who see all the action, even if we never hear about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[UmaroVI]

"Slowed relative to the manasphere" is clearly meant to be talking about frame of reference, as in, slowed relative to the frame of reference in which the Earth is stationary. Because otherwise you could make an argument that when you use it, everything in its area of effect can only move 1m/s and thus "falls off the earth" as it hurtles through space.

[BishopMcQ]

Umaro--Yes it is. I don't actually agree with the "really narrow view" that I suggested, but was providing arguments for GMs who don't wish to simply handwave the spell out of the game. As a feather fall or reverse levitate, I think the spell has merit. For balance purposes at my home table, I will remove the bullet/explosion immunity, but that's just me.

[Sengir]

Sengir--Based on the table from p. 183, I'd be hard pressed to go past an 8 for Object Resistance, but since the table gets vague after 5+, it becomes very open to GM adjudication.

5+ (or was it 6+) obviously does not say how far up it can go, but I think at some point the sheer size of something should start to matter. If you want to affect something big, it required a lot of magical juice.

As far as Slow is concerned, the way I read it, everything within the area of effect is slowed down, which means that the paratroopers start falling very slowly immediately[...]

Exactly that's where I see the problem - if it slows the jumpers to 1m/s in an instant, hitting the spell area does not sound that much different from hitting the ground...

[KarmaInferno]

Apparently the rating 10 programs, which I would agree with.

I still have problems thinking that the military gets bleeding edge stuff when they're still running Windows 98 on their computers in the machine shop. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Remember, though, when you think about today, you see the military with equipment made by the lowest bidder. Except for private military companies, who often have some of the best equipment money can buy.

In SR, the PMCs ARE the military, to a large extent. Megacorp forces far exceed actual national military forces.

There is a vast difference in equipment that can be fielded when you are a profitable company, as opposed to a resource drain.




-k

[BishopMcQ]

Sengir--It comes down to either "Magic changes Physics" or the team casts it before jumping out of the plane, which is more of a HAHO jump and a prayer that a metahuman signature doesn't get picked up on radar. I went with the first option, but acknowledge that it is far from the realistic option.

[UmaroVI]

Umaro--Yes it is. I don't actually agree with the "really narrow view" that I suggested, but was providing arguments for GMs who don't wish to simply handwave the spell out of the game. As a feather fall or reverse levitate, I think the spell has merit. For balance purposes at my home table, I will remove the bullet/explosion immunity, but that's just me.

I agree that the spell is unbalanced. Humorously, the one thing it doesn't work against is Stick and Shock, since that does damage from electrical shock, not velocity, making the already-more-effective-than-real-bullets SnS even more good. I just dislike the attitude of thinking that houserules are such a terrifying thing that people feel the need to justify their houserules as bizarre readings of the rules instead of just saying "I'm houseruling this because it is broken."

[Sengir]

Sengir--It comes down to either "Magic changes Physics" or the team casts it before jumping out of the plane, which is more of a HAHO jump and a prayer that a metahuman signature doesn't get picked up on radar.

I just imagined a team "falling" out of a plane at 3.6km/h. The whole 20 kilometers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

All in all, this spell reminds me of the "Stasis Field" (can't remember what it was really called) in The Forever War: It doesn't slow neural signals like in the novel (deadly, in case you didn't guess), but slowing heart contractions or vibrations of the vocal chords already has enough "WTF?!" potential.

[BishopMcQ]

I just imagined a team "falling" out of a plane at 3.6km/h. The whole 20 kilometers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Or push a sniper out with a lawn chair and a six-pack. Sit down, have a drink and provide cover fire from several klicks straight up. Late at night, with a ruthenium tarp beneath him to prevent viewing from below, and you have an "eye in the sky" for a couple hours.

[otakusensei]

Or push a sniper out with a lawn chair and a six-pack. Sit down, have a drink and provide cover fire from several klicks straight up. Late at night, with a ruthenium tarp beneath him to prevent viewing from below, and you have an "eye in the sky" for a couple hours.

Blimps don't need to be mages.

Also I will forever regret using the ruthenium sniper blimp as a table example for using the vehicle mod rules...

[Sengir]

Or push a sniper out with a lawn chair and a six-pack. Sit down, have a drink and provide cover fire from several klicks straight up. Late at night, with a ruthenium tarp beneath him to prevent viewing from below, and you have an "eye in the sky" for a couple hours.

Unfortunately, from an outside POV both the cover fire and the sniper will have the same speed relative to Earth. Which means that from the sniper's POV, the bullet is not going to move anywhere. Even more interestingly, what happens if a jumper is in the standard belly position and tries to bring one of his arms under his body? That would mean his arm is moving faster towards Earth than the limit allows (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Cheops]

Carl Sargent co-authored Black Madonna

I rather liked that one and it touched on enough stuff that when people were all like "You have to read the DaVinci code!" I was able to be all like "meh, been there done that." Although I will grant you that not everything back in the day was golden.

[Stahlseele]

Blimps don't need to be mages.

Also I will forever regret using the ruthenium sniper blimp as a table example for using the vehicle mod rules...

why?
have you SEEN the Batman Animated Series?
Blimps like that BELONG into this setting . .

[BishopMcQ]

Unfortunately, from an outside POV both the cover fire and the sniper will have the same speed relative to Earth. Which means that from the sniper's POV, the bullet is not going to move anywhere. Even more interestingly, what happens if a jumper is in the standard belly position and tries to bring one of his arms under his body? That would mean his arm is moving faster towards Earth than the limit allows (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Does Magic follow the General Rule of Relativity or the Special?

[otakusensei]

why?
have you SEEN the Batman Animated Series?
Blimps like that BELONG into this setting . .

Not when they're build on a Yamaha Rapier frame, sport signature masking, mount a laser and are invisible to the naked eye.

Agreed on the Batman style blimps though.

[Stahlseele]

OK, now you're closer on Batman Beyond.
STILL completely valid in my eyes ^^

[otakusensei]

I rather liked that one and it touched on enough stuff that when people were all like "You have to read the DaVinci code!" I was able to be all like "meh, been there done that." Although I will grant you that not everything back in the day was golden.

I hate to say it, but I kinda enjoyed the Dragon Heart Trilogy. Maybe I was just in the right frame of mind at the time, but it was just trashy enough to be a good read.

[Mäx]

I agree that the spell is unbalanced. Humorously, the one thing it doesn't work against is Stick and Shock, since that does damage from electrical shock, not velocity, making the already-more-effective-than-real-bullets SnS even more good.

Only if the mage is stupid enought to not dodge the slowed down bullet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

why am i now kinda thinking of the last superman movie trailer, where the bullet hits his eye?

[Sengir]

Does Magic follow the General Rule of Relativity or the Special?

In general it follows relatively weird physical rules, and then there are the special cases...

[otakusensei]

why am i now kinda thinking of the last superman movie trailer, where the bullet hits his eye?

No one can defeat the Quad Laser...