War, HUH! It's out on pdf Options

[Method]

Well I have boxes full of SR books. I own every book published in English, and multiple copies of some. And I think SR4A is among the best. Top 5 for sure.

But then my tastes might be different than some around here. For example, I think Shadowbeat was terrible.

[sabs]

I really liked London Source book

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[hermit]

Shadowbeat was okay, but not the best book ever. My favourites will always be the old city books - London, Seattle, Denver, and the Parnormal Animals of Europe. YMMV.

SR4A is the prettiest rules book to date, though.

[otakusensei]

Well I have boxes full of SR books. I own every book published in English, and multiple copies of some. And I think SR4A is among the best. Top 5 for sure.

But then my tastes might be different than some around here. For example, I think Shadowbeat was terrible.

I've always wanted to like Shadowbeat. But the facts are that it was just never one I reached for. I can't recall off th top of my head what turned me off, but I just never cared for it. Sprawl Sites, totally different story.

SR4A is honestly the best looking Shadowrun book on any shelf, and for my money the most useful. Other games can only hope to have such a fantastic book as it's core, and only Eclipse Phase can claim to.

[Tzeentch]

-- The mechanical bits for Shadowbeat were pretty bad, but the basic concept of determining Impact of a performance/news piece was pretty damn cool.

[otakusensei]

-- The mechanical bits for Shadowbeat were pretty bad, but the basic concept of determining Impact of a performance/news piece was pretty damn cool.

I do recall that one. We had a 43 rolled on that table at one point. Or street sam was a ukulele hero in that barren's bar ever after.

[WyldKnight]

I wouldn't go that far, but it's the best for this edition, save the German-only Berlin book.

There wouldn't be any chance of someone willing to translate that would there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I actually liked Feral Cities a lot. Was it the best book out there? Oh, god no. But it had a lot of info that led to some of the best games I had with my players and their favorite mission by far. That one being where they hooked up with the caravan mentioned in it and had a run that could only be described as a mix of Mad Max and Burn Notice.

[CanadianWolverin...]

Was it just too obvious, obnoxious, or silly being the reason no one has posted the lyrics to a particular song that seems for the most part appropriate? Fine, I'll do it, I like being silly:

EDWIN STARR
"War"

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all

War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

...

Well, good god y'all, huh, I can't be the only one who thought it, given the title of the thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

This reminds me of something; I once received a PM from Jason (at the time I was surprised by this because I personally don't value by opinion as I am very much a new comer to SR and wondered why we didn't just have the discussion in the thread we were using at the time), which I feel comfortable sharing part of since this was something stated by Jason openly already. It was easier for me to find a PM than to comb through the many threads to find a similar post that I recall in vague terms, so I hope I am not far off or inconsiderate in sharing this:

Re:Catalyst Game Labs, Mar 30 2010, 05:42 PM

...

As I've mentioned on the thread, since there are some things I'm not willing to discuss, it's not easy to evaluate where things stand. I've invited people to determine how Catalyst does in the future by using three concrete measures that do not require anyone to guess at motivations or things they may not know. 1) Are freelancers being paid? 2) Are books that had been pulled from sale back on sale? 3) Are new, quality books coming out?

Those are my goals, and I hope we'll do a good job measuring up to them. I fully expect people to hold me accountable for them.

Jason H.

By the points of determination which he set out, IMHO, only goals 1 and 2 have been met, good. As a business (and business practices) they are hanging by a thread, congrats.

Then its on to number 3 and this next part pretty much cuts the thread for me as a customer. I view quality as being parts both objective and subjective, but even by that I think War! is an example of goal 3 not being met and being a particular exclamation point on a pattern that has been forming with more recent releases. I can not honestly recommend from my newbie point of view that it is worth spending currency on.

Not saying those were the only points by which to mark future success/failure on JH's and CGL's endeavours with the Shadowrun fictional setting but quality of a product is a pretty big one for me personally. I don't pay the PC/Xbox 360 game much attention and it didn't get my disposable income either for very similar reasons of objective and subjective evaluations of quality of its product. With the current trend in that evaluation of quality before I incur credit card debt by way of a online purchase to own a copy of some entertainment, if I feel that I can get more quality by just using my own imagination and home brewing (or browsing what is going on with the community project), I have to say that is enough indication that I don't think I will paying much head to these recent or any future Jason and CGL Shadowrun setting creative endeavours.

Sincerely,
Wolvie

[hermit]

There wouldn't be any chance of someone willing to translate that would there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I don't think so, as Hardy has a couple other translated products (German extra chapters and gear) lying around he can just publish, and yet doesn't, but there ought to.

[Werewindlefr]

That could all be explained with new forces at work. Slow, however, requires more energy to work even once than present in the entire universe, all metaplanes and manaspheres included. That's a slight difference.

That statement makes absolutely no sense from a physical standpoint: you don't need "energy" to slow down something, you take energy away. Also, an infinite force (and power) over and infinitesimaly small amount of time doesn't (necessarily) give you "infinite" energy, it gives you the indeterminate case of a 0 * infinity. In this case, you lift the indetermination by calculating the same "slowdown" phenomenon over a finite time, then take the limit as time goes to 0.
Also, force is a macroscopic -'statistical mechanics', in a way- concept. At the (very) microscopic level, there's interaction, and energy/momentum transfer is done by "chunks". An electron absorbing a 50 keV photon will see its energy increase by 50 keVs without going through intermediary steps. So take the extreme case when you have this sudden change over all the particles composing the bullet, and there, you have your spell !


Also, it's magic. Magic doesn't need "force", "power", or such concepts. It has to break physical laws, because otherwise it just stops existing: a universe where no physical laws are broken is ... well, our universe, no more, no less.

[Sengir]

That statement makes absolutely no sense from a physical standpoint: you don't need "energy" to slow down something, you take energy away.

in·er·tia
   /ɪnˈɜrʃə, ɪˈnɜr-/ Show Spelled[in-ur-shuh, ih-nur-]
–noun
1.
inertness, esp. with regard to effort, motion, action, and the like; inactivity; sluggishness.
2.
Physics .
a.
the property of matter by which it retains its state of rest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The alternative would be that the spell literally drains the energy out of the moving object. In which case somebody should cast Slow on the world, because a lot of people want to get off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Werewindlefr]

Edit: misunderstood the statement the poster was making.

a.
the property of matter by which it retains its state of rest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force.

So your force is opposite to your displacement. Negative work, you take energy out of the system to transfer it to your "stopping spell". Infinite power, Infinite force, Null time, Finite energy (0 * infinite, but with a value we can probably set to be equal to the energy in the bullet - some heat).

That said, I think it's kind of nonsensical to discuss the physics of this spells in that much depth, unless they really break willing suspension of disbelief or are completely incoherent or inconsistent with something that a GM/players could reasonably use, which is not the case here. I'm not saying all the physical consequences of the spell should be ignored (plane drones will still crash), but looking at "how magic achieves this result" is a total waste of time: it's magic, duh !

I agree that the spell is a pile of poo, but just because it break the game. It is clearly overpowered in the current Shadowrun system.

[Cheops]

If a player of mine had suggested something like the Slow spell he would have been very disappointed with the decision to make the 4ed rulebooks hard cover.

[Adarael]

Quick question, since I don't own War!.

Can the gaiasphere really veto the use of nuclear weapons? Is this established?

[CanRay]

"War, Nobby. Huh! What is it good for?" (Colon) said.

"Dunno, Sarge. Freeing slaves, maybe?"

"Absol--well, okay."

"Defending yourself against a totalitarian agressor?"

"All right, I'll grant you that, but--"

"Saving civilization from a horde of--"

"It doesn't do any good in the long run is what I'm saying, Nobby, if you'd
listen for five seconds together," said Fred Colon sharply.

"Yeah, but in the long run, what does, Sarge?"

-- Terry Pratchett, "Thud!"

Figured that this quote needed to be here too.

[KarmaInferno]

Quick question, since I don't own War!.

Can the gaiasphere really veto the use of nuclear weapons? Is this established?

It's more of an observation that since the Sixth World started, an awful lot of nukes that were set off or fired did not operate as planned.

Either they exploded weird, or the missiles vanished mid-flight, or other oddness.



-k

[Stahlseele]

Just came up elsewhere . .
Use the Designate Spell to make yourself immune to guided weapons:
Cast it at some rock you don't care about and watch the fireworks!
Guided Weapons are expensive enough when they hit.
If they don't hit, it's literally tons of money being simply burned up . .

[kzt]

That said, I think it's kind of nonsensical to discuss the physics of this spells in that much depth, unless they really break willing suspension of disbelief or are completely incoherent or inconsistent with something that a GM/players could reasonably use, which is not the case here. I'm not saying all the physical consequences of the spell should be ignored (plane drones will still crash), but looking at "how magic achieves this result" is a total waste of time: it's magic, duh !

I think the fact that it creates a Maxwell's demon is pretty cool. Of course, having the temperature in the area of effect rapidly lowered to below 1 Kelvin might make it kind of unimportant that bullets don't hurt them.

[Adarael]

It's more of an observation that since the Sixth World started, an awful lot of nukes that were set off or fired did not operate as planned.

Either they exploded weird, or the missiles vanished mid-flight, or other oddness.

Well, as long as it's just f'ing shadowtalk in the book, I don't have to gouge someone's eyes out with my thumbs. The very moment someone tries to establish *officially* that nuclear reactions don't work in a predictable way, I will lose my shit very publicly. Observing a lot of nuclear stuff has behaved oddly is simply factual; attempting to ascribe it to the laws of the universe working in an arbitrary fashion makes me want to pull out my hair.

But I'm sure you know this, because I *never shut up about it*. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CanRay]

Well, the Nuke in Chicago didn't go off "properly" due to external circumstances as much as anything else... But, well, we can also blame the Bugs for that.

HEY! Another thing that should have been put in War! (And apparently wasn't.), Bug Hunting!

[Saint Sithney]

Feral Cities covered Chicago for nearly half a book, but I bet there are special companies in Africa that go around burning out bug hives in sub-Saharan villages..

How about the civil war in northern California that lasted from 61 to 67?
Would have been a pretty good excuse to talk about topics like the integration of wireless technology into battle while giving a bit of historical brush-off a brush-up.

So many conflicts out there to choose from which don't involve magic trees.

[hermit]

Cue the shameless drumming for my project that wants to cover these.

[Stahlseele]

Is it just me or is that project getting more and more a mix between the almanach and war? O.o

[Jareth Valar]

It's more of an observation that since the Sixth World started, an awful lot of nukes that were set off or fired did not operate as planned.

Either they exploded weird, or the missiles vanished mid-flight, or other oddness.

One possibility, instead of the whole Gaia idea (note to Final Fantasy Lifestream analogy) is perhaps it's just a natural reaction between whatever energy the astral plane/mana emanates and the energy released through radioactive decay.

Perhaps the avalanche analogy would be a good one. It describes the massive release of energy going to ground, and a Nuclear Explosion uses radioactive fissionable material.

Maybe the astral/mana energy, now that it is in "phase" or "in tune" with the regular and normally definable laws of reality acts in a way similar to the way EM fluctuations interfere with radio signals. Perhaps, in keeping with the avalanche, the astral forms invisible and unpredictable channels in which the energy is diverted or interacts with it on a quantum level that renders it inert or changes the energy in a way as to be unrecognizable freom its original form.

If this were the case, it would be VERY difficult to predict and therefore make RELYING on Nuclear Fission a game of Russian Roulette. Does it still work? Yes, for the most part. Is there a chance for it to go completely spazoid and create a poof of flowers and confetti? Slim, but unpredictably possible.

In the early 20th, we had no idea that EM fields would interfere with radio waves the way they do, in the mid 20th we had no idea about how radiation interacted with the material world in the long run, or what radiation did to the environment in the short term. Perhaps this is just the next level we have to understand on how to interact and another level of complexity to the universe.

In a world where the supernatural is still largely unexplainable, and undefinable (scientifically), the superstitious nature of the human mind could easily attribute it to the "Gaiasphere/Lifestream" being unhappy with the use of Nuclear energy, where it is probably like it has ALWAYS been in (meta)human history...."Wow, I didn't know it would do THAT!"

Just a thought. And to me, easier to swallow. Is it scientific? Quasi-so, about as scientific as being able to hurl a fireball from my fingertips. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[sabs]

Well it's War! Expanded! And yes, it' turning into an Almanach.. but focused on the Merc/Military aspects of each region. More so than the strict.. shadowrunning parts.

Like Megu and Frank's work on South East Asia. They're really focusing on the military aspects of the region.
One could still write a straight up book on "Running in Vietnam" that focused on ESPRIT, and Vietnamese Corporations, gangs, etc.. that looked more like Seattle: 2072, or even like Feral Cities.


But I do agree we seem to be expanding fleshing out huge chunks of the world.

Personally I hope we get to build an Africa setting that's actually intriguing.. and worth playing as more than just, "we had 1 mission there.. bored now."