War, HUH! It's out on pdf Options

[Stahlseele]

Heh, if you don't watch out, you're going to rewrite half of the shadowrun world ^^

[sabs]

Half of it needs to be rewritten? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Doc Chase]

Heh, if you don't watch out, you're going to rewrite half of the shadowrun world ^^

I think we're intent on rewriting half of the shadowrun world as is. If we're not careful, every last country will be a living, breathing thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[sabs]

When it comes to south America..
What the hell happened to Peru, Chile, and Argentina? They get nothing, no write up, no love.. it's like they don't eve exist.

[Doc Chase]

When it comes to south America..
What the hell happened to Peru, Chile, and Argentina? They get nothing, no write up, no love.. it's like they don't eve exist.

Well, not yet.

[sabs]

Yeah, given the crap CGL has been putting out, maybe I should be glad noone's destroyed those countries too.

[Kagetenshi]

I think we're intent on rewriting half of the shadowrun world as is. If we're not careful, every last country will be a living, breathing thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

That no one will care about (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

~J, of the opinion that the world consists of Seattle and Denver and that's the way it ought to be

[Rotbart van Dain...]

What the hell happened to Peru, Chile, and Argentina?

Peru: SoLA by José Barbe and Hugo Medina, SWA by Ancient History
Argentina: SoLA by Synner

[Doc Chase]

That no one will care about (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

~J, of the opinion that the world consists of Seattle and Denver and that's the way it ought to be

I care.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Doc Chase: Shadowrun Carebear!
*runs for his life*

[Doc Chase]

Doc Chase: Shadowrun Carebear!
*runs for his life*

In Shadowrun, the Care Bear Stare involves eye lasers and a spambox full of ghoul porn.

The Two-Ghoul Splatter Platter can be canon. We can do it. We have the technology.

[otakusensei]

In Shadowrun, the Care Bear Stare involves eye lasers and a spambox full of ghoul porn.

The Two-Ghoul Splatter Platter can be canon. We can do it. We have the technology.

I think I need to stat out a SURGEd drop bear...

[Doc Chase]

I think I need to stat out a SURGEd drop bear...

Chaotic World spell with a geas of 'show target your stomach'?

[X-Kalibur]

That no one will care about (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

~J, of the opinion that the world consists of Seattle and Denver and that's the way it ought to be

There is one city too many there.

The world only consists of Seattle and that's the way it ought to be.

[raben-aas]

Being one of those who complained about the crappy German wording of the dreaded "Vogelhund", I stand corrected and somewhat ashamed, as this word and vehicle was NOT introduced by WAR! AT ALL, but has been around for some time:

http://www.gods-inc.de/macavity/IsleOfShad...l-vogelhund.jpg
http://www.gods-inc.de/macavity/IsleOfShad...cles/tanks.html

Seems to be the same case as Auschwitz, a setting that was introduced way earlier, too.

Mind you: That's no excuse for everything that was RIGHTFULLY criticized – but really: we, too, have to get our facts straight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Lesson to be learned: In ancient times, before web 2.0, stuff like that just happened and everyone was Meh! about it (or they would have been Meh! about it if that termhad been invented then). I vaguely recall shrugging my head and rolling my eyes, and be done with it. Ah, those days...

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Seems to be the same case as Auschwitz, a setting that was introduced way earlier, too.

No, as the issue with that setting in War! is that it is both utterly disrespectful and factually wrong about history, both RL and SR.

[raben-aas]

@Rotbart: I'm not arguing against that. However, the Auschwitz setting before that was crap, too. That's what I meant.

[Kagetenshi]

Being one of those who complained about the crappy German wording of the dreaded "Vogelhund", I stand corrected and somewhat ashamed, as this word and vehicle was NOT introduced by WAR! AT ALL, but has been around for some time

In the interests of fairness, I should additionally note that miserable naming is a long-standing Shadowrun tradition now—the excellent Corporate Download has several howlers amongst the Japanese corporations: "Ganbare Aerospace" ("Keep-it-up aerospace", or "Perservere aerospace"), "Wakatta Software" ("Understood software"), and "Ressha Corporation" ("Train corporation").

Of course, Corporate Download gets away with it because it is overall, as mentioned, excellent (well, that and the fact that the howlers are tucked away in the lists of subsidiaries). That makes up for a lot.

~J

[Adarael]

Seriously? I mean, Renraku, sure, but that's the kind of dumb name I can bet a real corporation would have, especially one that started as a telecom and networking company. But those are dumb as hell. I can't believe I missed those... I guess that's what comes of having read Corporate Download before I started taking Japanese in college.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

However, the Auschwitz setting before that was crap, too.

"too"? No – they don't compare, at all.
"crap"? Not really, either.

[Nath]

"Ressha Corporation" ("Train corporation").

This one probably dates back to the good old Seattle Sourcebook, page 8, with the "Ressah Maglev Bullet Train" between San Francisco and Seattle.

[Cochise]

@Rotbart: I'm not arguing against that. However, the Auschwitz setting before that was crap, too. That's what I meant.

As I tried to explain elsewhere: The old Auschwitz setting was crap that had zero relevance for the SR universe in the long run and pretty much brought its own resolution along: The Sylvertrines locking it up and thus keeping it in the area of a historical side note that still served best as the reference for high level background count. This new Auschwitz is - the part about taste and moral aside for now - loaded with universe changing implications:

1. Magic has obviously risen to a point where artifacts with magical properties have come into existance without the use of magical skills or so far common restrictions imposed on the most "SotA"-enchantments (no dual nature)
2. There's a highly magically active entity (single person or group) around that was willing (and in need?) to bring down the spirit barrier maintained by the Sylvestrines (to bring something in there or out of there that is hindered by the barrier ... ie. a spirit). Such a dangerous and powerfull entity should be detailed better (best prior to WAR! in a fitting book about new magical threats) due to its overarching importance to the game's metaplot ... but it's just left to the individual GM to come up with that.
3. The mere knowledge about such special artifacts is enough to let various megas focussing on this new holy grail of magic: Items with persistent magical properties that are otherwise unaffected by magic. Some of the megas would just resort to recreating the situations that supposedly created the items, while others would just send waves of troops (shadowrunners and official corp forces alike) to secure as many items as possible before starting with the actual research.

So this crap is not just about bad taste and laughable price tags on magical atrifacts, it's all about where the game universe is going ...

This leaves us with the question: Which pile of crap as bigger and which one is smellier than the other?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The old Auschwitz setting was crap […]

As it was corresponding to the overall shape of the Sixth world and mechanically sound, this is may be your opinion, but hardly a fact.

[…] that had zero relevance for the SR universe in the long run […]

As you put it:

[…] a historical side note that still served best as the reference for high level background count.

So while it may not have acted as a "setting" for typical shadowruns themselves, it was a historic site developed to SR perspective and still acting as a reminder. So contributing to immersion, constituting relevance.
Since the time spans involved (2011 – 2035 – 2061+, SoE p. 229) it also had a long term effect on the area, that continues:

[…] and pretty much brought its own resolution along: The Sylvertrines locking it up and thus keeping it[…]

There is no resolution in SoE, with the Sylvestrines starting to fail despite efforts (SoE p. 119) and obviously, in War! canon, there is no resolution either.

[Cochise]

As it was corresponding to the overall shape of the Sixth world and mechanically sound, this is may be your opinion, but hardly a fact.

It was "crap" in terms of introducing spirits in way that made the "mechanically sound" aspect debatable ...

So while it may not have acted as a "setting" for typical shadowruns themselves, it was a historic site developted to SR perspective and still acting as a reminder. So contributing to immersion, constituting relevance.

But it didn't shape the gaming universe in an ongoing way ... As you said: A historic site that contributed to immersion, but wouldn't necessarily change the gaming universe in the long run due to implications behind the newly established facts in SoE.

Since the time spans involved (2011 – 2035 – 2061+) it also had a long term effect on the area

But one that you could just forget about from the universe's perspective.

that continues:

It continues now that the author chose to "press on" ...

There is no resolution in SoE, with the barrier starting to fail despite efforts

A solution (the barrier) on a meta level that allows to simply forget about Auschwitz beyond the immersion aspect is something different than an ingame resolution for the plot as such. We're talking different things here quite obviously.

and obviously, in War! canon, there is no resultion either.

No, a resolution clearly isn't given in WAR! either ... What's worse: More cans of worms have been opened and if it weren't for the bad taste issue there'd be (and functionall are) several reasons now for actually shifting rather heavy focus on said area. So that makes it a different kind of "crap", but doesn't relief the SoE entry of its own bad ramifications

[Rotbart van Dain...]

It was "crap" in terms of introducing spirits in way that made the "mechanically sound" aspect debatable ...

Possession by unique spirits was featured as early as Prime Runners and Spectres could have the possession power, as well as free spirits powers. With astral gateway, this allows them to posess about anybody, even in in SR3.
So both preexisting canon and corresponding rules allowed for the things described.

But it didn't shape the gaming universe in an ongoing way ... As you said: A historic site that contributed to immersion, but wouldn't necessarily change the gaming universe in the long run due to implications behind the newly established facts in SoE.

There is no need for every description to change the world, as you imply. In fact, that would be pretty detrimental in this case.

But one that you could just forget about from the universe's perspective.

"forget" about Auschwitz?

It continues now that the author chose to "press on" ...

Not quite, it was specifically unresolved in SoE:

A solution (the barrier) on a meta level that allows to simply forget about Auschwitz beyond the immersion aspect is something different than an ingame resolution for the plot as such.

Again: SoE specifically notes that the barrier is not a "solution" anymore, see SoE p. 119.

So that makes it a different kind of "crap", but doesn't relief the SoE entry of its own bad ramifications

"bad ramifications"? The worst that can be said about the SoE description is that it did not act as a "world changer" or "adventure themepark". The latter is exactly what's so wrong with the part from War!…