War! Gear & Rules, What's good, iffy, needs fixing or a complete revamp? Options

[hobgoblin]

Right. Because Lofwyr and Dunkie where such close homies that Goldmaster would want to give his departed buddy a shout out.

There was a certain degree of respect between them. They had differing opinions on how to achieve some goals, but they where quite able to agree to disagree.

and hell, how long had they been passing that fruitcake back and forth each holiday season?

[Draco18s]

and hell, how long had they been passing that fruitcake back and forth each holiday season?

That was Alamais.

[hobgoblin]

I don't believe you ever will, either. I seem to recall that the Japanese are forbidden from manufacturing such military hardware - or forbade themselves from same. After all, they don't even have a standing military, their SDF's are considered police.

Well the SR japan is basically a cross between 80s japan and WW2 japans, so...

[hobgoblin]

That was Alamais.

Hmm, i really need to do a error check on my brain...

[hermit]

To put it in broaderer terms I think it's a Zune and not a first gen Red Ring Xbox360. I know people who like their Zune and get use out of it.

To go with this analogy, for me, it's a chinese knockoff of a PS1 that came in the shell of an Xbox360. Sure, it won't burn out on you if you leave it running for two hours straight and don't put it into the fridge, but I expected and paid for a 360, not a PS1, and I feel cheated because packaging and advertising promised this would be an Xbox 360. All the developers telling me it's still good for PS1 games won't help me playing Mass Effect with it. This is known as plagiarism and not a sound business strategy, unless you're a mafia outfit in some Italian shanty town that specialises in product fraud.

I paid for a revisited Fields of Fire. I got a badly written Target: Bogotá, A list of 'global hotspots' that not only have nothing to do with a mercenary campaign but also have a disgusting racist undertone, and a gear and rules section that has to be almost entirely houseruled, errataed or rewritten. To add insult to injury the text is riddled with spelling, layout, and content errors in regards to any previous products. You don't have to agree, but that is not what I paid money for.

Now in regards to Missions quality, naturally as I work on missions and like to be involved in them as much as possible I think they are pretty good, especially given that our production cycle is to put it bluntly, brutal, and I have been one of the strongest critics of how we do operations internally and externally. Have there been flaws, sure, New York saw three campaign admins over the course of it's life, and that showed in both the release schedule and internal consistency including mission pay and the affiliation rewards/missions. But on the whole I think if you enjoy playing Shadowrun, enjoy the social and persistent aspects of "living" campaigns, or just want some pre-built stuff to either run out of the box or use as a resource missions are a gold mine and well worth the extremely nominal cost.

Aside from quality of the writing, I was also interested in quality of editing and layout, and spelling. Do you spellcheck missions? Do you playtest them?

[KarmaInferno]

As Bull covered in another thread, War will be in, warts and all, optional rules are as always not allowed, the gear will be in but most of the really bad stuff has prohibitively high availability ratings.

I would question that, as it's silly easy to get uber-social skills in Shadowrun and Availability keys off them.

My face character is NOT the most Negotiation-focused character out there in SRM-land, and even she can hit an Availability 102. Without Edge. With the really low nuyen price attached to a lot of that gear, it means that it'll take at most 2-3 Missions to acquire them.




-k

[Saint Sithney]

Hey, I have some ideas too:

- The CAS Naval Systems Uncle Tom class merchant liner
- The NeoNET McVeigh MLRM vehicle
- The New York class suicide attack plane (a larger version of the Arsenal missile drone)
- The Ares Abu Ghureib class luxury cruise liner.

Isnt't hat just funny?!

The USA already names its current weapons after its former victims.
Or have you never heard of the Apache, Black Hawk or Chinook helicopters?

[sabs]

Indians are cool

Don't forget the
RAH-66 Comanche
It's not so much about people they've defeated as.
Indian names are cool!

[otakusensei]

• Yes, Dunkelzahn is a tribute name. We already do that sort of thing today. While I doubt the authorization for the name came from Lofwyr himself, I reckon he's got enough class to allow the tribute to the fallen rival to stand; maybe he's a complete bastard in your game, that's okay.

I expected that a name like "Dunkelzahn" would be treated with more care in a product. Maybe use his name from the forth age, a sort of stealth reference? That's one of the things I feel is missing from the current product line, that level of subtle awareness of the metaplot that made reading Shadowrun and putting the pieces together so interesting. That, and the typos, is why it feels like no one cares anymore. A perfect chance to sneak a little something in, and instead we get a blatant name drop on some gear porn.

[sabs]

Didn't you hear
the Shadowrun Earthdawn cross-over stuff is officially "no longer cool" and they're sprinting away from it with great haste.

[hermit]

Which is why they make the big crossover storyline into DragonballZrun.

[Nath]

Foque: means nothing
Foc : is a type of Sail
Phoque: Seal

"foque" is actually a possible, if dated, spelling for "foc".

Yes, it's the company. ESPRIT Industries is a creature of SR France and basically a number of French aeronautics and weapons companies rolled into one and given a cool name. And given the naming convention in France this probably needs to be revised too ...

Esprit Industries actually first appeared in Fields of Fire, as the manufacturer if the military grade armor. As the only French corporation mentioned in Shadowrun for some time (along with French-Italian Renault-Fiat), French sourcebook France and Shadows of Europe expanded over that single mention. SOTA:2063 already mentioned an Esprit Phoque assault hovercraft, which is likely to be the same vehicle.

The current naming convention in the French Army is acronym, with the occasional attempt of a double meaning (like the CAESAR, camion équipe d'un système d'artillerie, "truck equipped with an artillery system). Only helicopters have a special naming convention with felid names (Lynx, Puma, Cougar, Tigre), and missiles and airplanes who have no convention at all.

-- Dunkelzahn. For a S-K product. No comment.

I guess no people at CGL has ever read Earthdawn sourcebook Dragons and that part about how names are important to dragons...

[Draco18s]

I guess no people at CGL has ever read Earthdawn sourcebook Dragons and that part about how names are important to dragons...

Remember also that "Dunkelzahn" isn't his actual name. Wasn't in Earthdawn either.

[Nath]

I would question that, as it's silly easy to get uber-social skills in Shadowrun and Availability keys off them.

My face character is NOT the most Negotiation-focused character out there in SRM-land, and even she can hit an Availability 102. Without Edge. With the really low nuyen price attached to a lot of that gear, it means that it'll take at most 2-3 Missions to acquire them.

That's one of the reason why the 20th Anniversary edition suggests to apply a cumulative -1 modifier on extended rolls.

[sabs]

That's one of the reason why the 20th Anniversary edition suggests to apply a cumulative -1 modifier on extended rolls.

unfortunately that rule means that it's physically impossible to ever ever make a Rating 6 SiN

[Draco18s]

unfortunately that rule means that it's physically impossible to ever ever make a Rating 6 SiN

Or code complex programs (rating 6+ with options, or a new OS/Firewall)

[Adarael]

I know people who like their Zune and get use out of it.

Guilty as charged.

Zune, the software, is *much* better than iTunes, especially with the zunepass. 2nd gen Zune hardware is very good, on par with iPods, though functionally identical. ZuneHD's interface is far superior to iTouch/iPhone software.

/plug

[Nath]

Remember also that "Dunkelzahn" isn't his actual name. Wasn't in Earthdawn either.

Dragons, page 18
ON THE IMPORTANCE OF NAMES
Anyone in Barsaive knows hat Names are important. The ability yo Name and use Names is wahat make us Name-givers, after all. For dragons, Names are particularly important. Since we Name ourselves, rather than being Named by our parents or guardians, we understand the power and value Names have. To know something's Name is power, to Name something is an even greater power.
Dragons have many Names. For example, I am Vasdenjas. I am also the Master of Secrets, the Terrible, the Eater of Cities, the Master of Mount Wyrmspire, and many other things. Those Names all describe me and who I am. Some are more accurate than others, perhaps, but all of them are mine. As a dragon goes through life, he accumulates Names. The more Names a dragon has, the older and more powerful he tends to be.
Because we has and use do many Names, we dragons also have rules and rituals about which Names we use in which situations. For example, another dragon-hatchling, adolescent, adult or event great-does not address a great dragon by his chosen Name. Such is considered a grave insult. Dragons address great dragon by other Names to show their respect. We great dragons even use these other Names when speaking of a great dragon to other name-givers. To do otherwise is considered as the thing as addressing a great dragon by his chosen Name. Conversely other Name-givers must address us by our chosen Name or a proper title since to use the same Name that other dragons do in addressing us would be to suggest an equality with other dragons, a breech of etiquette that could get someone eaten.

But this is nitpicking. Though that would be sure appreciated, I don't believe perfect knowledge of Earthdawn should still be a requirement for SR author.

[hermit]

unfortunately that rule means that it's physically impossible to ever ever make a Rating 6 SiN

Even if you teamwork with an agent?

[Nath]

That's one of the reason why the 20th Anniversary edition suggests to apply a cumulative -1 modifier on extended rolls.

unfortunately that rule means that it's physically impossible to ever ever make a Rating 6 SiN

Or code complex programs (rating 6+ with options, or a new OS/Firewall)

It also prevents a bound spirit of average force with the Search power to locate any wanted criminal in a few months, no matter where on Earth he is.

Anyway, applying the modifier is only "suggested". The GM may decide on which roll it shold apply, and on which it shouldn't.

[hermit]

Make it a GM choice - the fix to every rules bug in SR4.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

unfortunately that rule means that it's physically impossible to ever ever make a Rating 6 SiN

Not by yourself. That's why you use team work.

Now, about the names of vehicles, after the translation, I really don't see much problem, even the Dunkelzahn...
I mean, let's take a look at brazilian military vehicles. The airplanes usually have a code name, like Embraer 100, etc...
Our current military airplane is the Super Tucano (Tucano = Toucan), I mean, among all the Brazilian birds, including birds of prey, like the Harpy, we are going to call a fighter plane after a bird whose feature is a big yellow beak? COME ON!

Our tanks are named after snakes, we have the Sucuri, Cascavel, Urutu, etc. (Trivia, the Cascavel was used by the Iraqi Army during the 90's conflict, they had the brilliant idea of burying the tanks instead of using its high maneuver and speed).

Finally, brazilian ships are named after states and cities, with few exceptions.

Even if you teamwork with an agent?

Agents can't have Software anymore.

[hermit]

Awww. Really? The Program-o-tron was such a nice way to get yourself a luxury lifestyle.

[Sengir]

I expected that a name like "Dunkelzahn" would be treated with more care in a product. [...] A perfect chance to sneak a little something in, and instead we get a blatant name drop on some gear porn.

I think that sums up my problem with the name quite well. Rules wise, simply say using this name* is one of the gazillion of highly complex dragonic rituals humans don't understand. But it just feels like "hey, we need a cool German-sounding name".


*: I know, he used to be called different. Given that the dragons don't even use sounds, gestures or any other form of human communication as their native language, a dragon's "true" name is porbably limited to dragonkind itself.

And to bring this somewhat back on topic: The rules for the automatic rappelling thing again refer to parachuting rules. Why did we still not get any? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

Agents can't have Software anymore.

But Pilots can. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Also, you don't need to code programs and program options at the same time. Code is modular, so you can plug options in later.