War! Gear & Rules, What's good, iffy, needs fixing or a complete revamp? Options

[Omenowl]

Monowire is a brand of Handwavium, of course it has the strength and mass to cut stuff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oh, something I recently saw: Microwire, used for climbing and available for 50NY/100m. In the BBB section for climbing gear. So different brands of ultra thin handweavium wire are completely RAW, one which is cheap and dissolves shortly after air contact sounds not far-fetched. Now I don't believe the devs thought about that, but it's a convenient explaination to stop players from making infinite money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also this makes perfect sense so you can have troops walk over the area without worrying about slicing off their toes. I like this interpretation myself.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

OK, once more:
1.) The firing crew does not know when the target is marked
2.) Therefore the spotter has to tell the guy at the trigger "target is painted, go get'em" (or do the equivalent with an automated platform). Yes, this is not mentioned in the rules, but should be extremely obvious.
3.) If communication is taking place anyway, it may as well be assumed that the whole technical information exchange is taking place behind the scenes, without the players having to act it out.

No sweat, no further gameplay complications, no fundamentals of magic touched.

But that would make Sense, and here on Dumpshock, that would remove any reason to quibble... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

So I'm saying that I don't think "micro" works in the kind of grenade we're talking about.

It's all nonsense. It's just a matter of choosing the correct nonsense.

Microwire: This micro rope is made of an extremely thin and
resilient fiber, so a great length of it can be stored in a very small
compartment. On the downside, it can only be grabbed with special
protective rappelling gloves, otherwise it will cut straight through the
climber’s hands (inflicting 8P damage).

If you try and grab it, it cuts your hands off (8P is MASSIVE DAMAGE.)
A bit different from piano wire, neh?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Not really – that damage happens when you try to climb it without protective gloves.

Trying to climb piano wire is a pretty stupid idea as well.

[Kagetenshi]

Trying to climb piano wire is a pretty stupid idea as well.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure you could try to climb it twice (or even three times) without dying.

~J

[Ascalaphus]

But that's because Reality™ has topical hits, and Shadowrun doesn't.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Yes, but I'm pretty sure you could try to climb it twice (or even three times) without dying.

On the low diameter end of piano wire, you will climb it just once at most, due to cut tendons.
Go thinner (as microwire), and cutting through bone under the full weight of you body becomes plausible. And lost fingers bleed like hell.

Which is still far from the sci-fi cutting ability of monowire that only needs a small weight when used as a monowhip.

[Kagetenshi]

On the low diameter end of piano wire, you will climb it just once at most, due to cut tendons.
Go thinner (as microwire), and cutting through bone under the full weight of you body becomes plausible. And lost fingers bleed like hell.

Well, granted, I guess it depends on how gung-ho you go at it.

~J

[Sengir]

Yes, but I'm pretty sure you could try to climb it twice (or even three times) without dying.

~J

Once with your right hand, once with your left hand, after that it gets complicated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

@Tymeaus: It always astonishes me that more technical people play RPGs than those doing jurisprudence...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

@Tymeaus: It always astonishes me that more technical people play RPGs than those doing jurisprudence...

Yeah, I cannot argue that point... I run into more closet geniuses through Gaming, than in any other endeavor that I take part in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

Not really – that damage happens when you try to climb it without protective gloves.

Trying to climb piano wire is a pretty stupid idea as well.

What's weird is how, when I read it, it says grab, and when you read it, it says climb.

It requires special gloves to handle, like razor-wire, except the whole thing is a razor.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Sorry to bring slow back into it this, but I was thinking house rule wise as having each hit reducing the velocity by a certain amount. For vehicle style movement it would be maybe 10m a hit, for projectiles it wold reduce DV by 1 a hit. Does that make sense as a house rule, any obvious flaws?(maybe add a side bar for falling velocities if it doesn't already exist, and that would work like vehicle speed changes)

So as a vehicle style example lets say Bob is on a Harley and he has its speed maxed out but not with any special level of skill so 120M a CT, joe wizard in the army throws a force 5 slow spell and gets 4 hits reducing the speed to 80m a CT.(Assuming the harley+rider is less than 800kg)

Meanwhile Bob was popping off shots at Joe with his HP with Ex EXplosive rounds base DV6 he gets 3 net hits, the bullets are slowed with 4 hits reducing the DV to 6+3-4=5 which joe tries to soak with his armor and body.

Still damn powerful since each hit reduces DV directly instead of giving a die to roll to reduce the DV, but it is a high drain spell.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

What's weird is how, when I read it, it says grab, and when you read it, it says climb.

You did notice the word "climber", right?

Like in "otherwise it will cut straight through the climber’s hands (inflicting 8P damage)." as opposed to "otherwise it will cut straight through the hands of anyone who touches it (inflicting 8P damage)."

It requires special gloves to handle, like razor-wire, except the whole thing is a razor.

No, not "handle" – "it can only be grabbed with special protective rappeling gloves"… you know, like for… climbing.
Guess what: "On the downside, it can only be grabbed with special protective rappeling gloves, otherwise it will cut straight through the climber’s hands (inflicting 8P damage)."

[Stahlseele]

Sounds like something Walther from Hellsing would use O.o

[hermit]

Walther from Hellsing uses a very classic monowire whip.

[Kagetenshi]

Walther from Hellsing uses a very classic monowire whip.

When I think of a classic monowire whip, I generally think of only one strand.

~J

[Stahlseele]

Walther from Hellsing uses a very classic monowire whip.

He basically uses glowes with one really thing wire on each finger, but he can also catch stuff with it without it being sawm to pieces.
Which makes me think more micro wire than mono wire.

[bobbaganoosh]

Anti-tank rounds say that they can be used only in large bore weapons, like sniper rifles, HMGs, and assault cannons. They cost 170 nuyen / 10 bullets. Normal assault cannon ammo is 450 nuyen / 10 bullets, and AV assault cannon ammo (-1 AP, -3 vs. vehicles) is 4500 nuyen / 10 bullets. So the best assault cannon ammo is also the cheapest. Doesn't this seem strange?

[Stahlseele]

Hmm . . large Bore?
Shotguns too?
As for the price: AV probably uses some kind of more expensive handwavium and the normal one uses cheaper unobtanium.

[bobbaganoosh]

Hmm . . large Bore?
Shotguns too?
As for the price: AV probably uses some kind of more expensive handwavium and the normal one uses cheaper unobtanium.

I don't think it lists shotguns. The logic behind that could be that shotgun shells are a bit different from regular bullets.
Thanks for the clarification on the difference between handwavium and unobtanium. I had always thought that they were one and the same.

[Stahlseele]

Well, they may not be the same, but you can under certain conditions substitute one for the other ^^
And if it just says Large Bore, then you should be able to get that kind of ammo for big barrel shotguns too, right? O.o

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Doesn't this seem strange?

No, in the context of War!, this is pretty normal.

[Fatum]

In what comes to monowire grenades - we can always suppose that monowire production, like modern-day CPU production, invariably produces some rejects. For example, monowires that are far too short, like maybe centimeters long.
Those are welded to a couple of small weights and used in the grenades - they have no value by themselves, and you can't use them for anything monowire would be used for.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Monowire comes from Nanofabs – it's what makes it so expensive. As this is a single-step process, it has nothing to do with ICs of any size, which need many steps: Those generate so much waste due to the fact that every step features unavoidable random errors and those pile up along the line.
Also, pieces too short to be sold individually (even single-digit cm mono-wire is very useful for industrial cutting) would also be too short to produce cuts relevant to damage – you would basically get a standard frag grenade due to the many counterweights.

There is no explanation other than the authors though a mono-grenade cutting people would be AWESOME and never bothered to check the prices in other supplements.

[Fatum]

Hmm, I don't remember reading about monowire only being produced by nanofabs - could you please direct me to the source of this info?
Well, yeah, counterweights would certainly work akin to shrapnel - but nowhere in the description does it say they don't :ь
At least that explanation makes a modicum of sense.

Oh well, come on, if Warp Spiders can have them, why can't shadowrunners :ь