Battle Rifles, Automatics or Longarms? Options

[AndyZ]

Do Battle Rifles use the Automatics skill, the Longarms skill, or the Heavy Weapons skill?

[WyldKnight]

Long arms, the enforcer is essentially a battle rifle. In fact when other rifles get negative modifiers for closer range battles in our games we don't apply it to enforcers and one other rifle in the core book though I can't remember which.

[Mäx]

AS they ae up-scaled assault rifles, i would say Automatics.

[hermit]

Exotic Firearms (Battle Rifles).

[Method]

In my group when you fire any rifle (AR, BR, SN) in SA mode the player has the option of using the Longarms Skill. If you are firing in BF or FA you need to use Automatics.

[WyldKnight]

Exotic Firearms (Battle Rifles).

Have you ever fired a battle rifle? That makes no sense to make it exotic.

I like methods idea since BRs are like the median between assault rifles and sniper rifles.

[Method]

I think hermit was being facetious.

[Mäx]

I think hermit was being facetious.

Ofcource he was, but he is technically right, as it's not mentioned what skill they use, an exotic weapon skill for them is the most RAW option.

[Saint Sithney]

Ofcource he was, but he is technically right, as it's not mentioned what skill they use, an exotic weapon skill for them is the most RAW option.

As well as the most balanced..

[sabs]

I like the idea that the skill required is determined by the firing mode.

That makes me happy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

As well as the most balanced..

Balanced? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Tzeentch]

-- I assume the intent, based on how the entry is phrased in War!, p. 154, is that you use the Automatics skill.

[hermit]

Have you ever fired a battle rifle? That makes no sense to make it exotic.

As has been said, by RAW Exotic (Battle Rifles) is the way to go. Since I live in a country where it would be rather hard to get one of these, let alone fire it, I have no experience with these rifles. I was just going by RAW. No offense meant.

I guess automatics is okay too, since it seems that Battle Rifle is basically descriptive of something like an assault rifle with more stopping power. I'll earmark this for an Errata.

[pbangarth]

I guess going by firing mode is okay too. It's just less ... RAW.

Does that make it half-baked?

[WyldKnight]

As has been said, by RAW Exotic (Battle Rifles) is the way to go. Since I live in a country where it would be rather hard to get one of these, let alone fire it, I have no experience with these rifles. I was just going by RAW. No offense meant.

I guess automatics is okay too, since it seems that Battle Rifle is basically descriptive of something like an assault rifle with more stopping power. I'll earmark this for an Errata.

No offense taken, I was just saying it's not a very exotic weapon. It fires like a hunting rifle. Heck, it essentially is a hunting rifle. Take one of those and make it SA and you have a BR.

No! NO! We are not having another pun thread Pbangarth!

[Omenowl]

I agree with the firing mode should determine if automatic or longarm. Single shots would use longarms and BF and FA require automatics. That is not canon, but seems to be the best compromise I have heard for the differences between the two skills.

As for exotics if the trajectory, use or handling drastically differs from a conventional weapon then I would agree with exotic. A battle rifle is the same as a sniper, assault or hunting rifle in the way it is fired or operated. Making it exotic would be like having shotguns require pump, semiautomatic and lever action as different skills. I hardly view flipping a switch between firing modes as requiring a new skill.

[sirdoom]

Actually, there is no such thing as a Battle Rifle. This term is not an official term or military designation. And it is more than strange to group fully-automatic personal rifles together with bolt-action ones, and to group other automatic rifles in another category just because of caliber (or even muzzle velocity in the case of the AK-47

I've seen the term Battle Rifle used only in American firearms circles, and in US magazines and publications (i.e. not in the wider English-speaking world), to refer to weapons such as the FN FAL, G3 and M14, i.e. weapons that have most of the characteristics of assault rifles except for the fact they use a more-powerful cartridges (7.62x51mm and up) and so as a result are longer, heavier and have more recoil than most assault rifles.

So it should be Automatics or Longarms, depending on the firing mode. And as I fired more than 5000 round with a H&K G3 myself, this compromise seems somehow accurate.

[WyldKnight]

There is such a thing as a battle rifle here. An example being the M14 EBR (Enhanced Battle Rifle.) Wouldn't carbines be another example of pointless separation?

[Method]

That house rule came out of extensive discussions amongst my group, which is made up of avid gun collectors and shooting enthusiasts.

[InfinityzeN]

First off, none of the "Battle Rifles" in War are full automatic capable. They all fire burst, much as most of the rifles and carbines used by the US military today do. All of their game stats are the same as Sport Rifles (with the BF mod and using clips) which is exactly what we call "Battle Rifles". Hunting/Sporting Rifles modified for burst first and with "Soldier Proofing" to survive being used to bash someones head in. The BAR is not a Battle Rifle, but a MMG using clips (Magazines, damn SR funky terms) instead of being belt fed.

From real life experience (hunting and military), my first thoughts were to use the Long Arms skill. I actually brought up the question really early in the War! thread.

[KarmaInferno]

I have to imagine the assault rifle vs battle rifle distinction didn't really occur until they started fielding the 5.56 ammunition and equivalent. The theory being that smaller rounds were more suited for the shorter ranges soldiers were fighting at, with the additional benefit of being lighter so a soldier could carry more. The idea that a smaller round would cause wounds more often instead of straight up kills, and tie up additional enemy resources trying to extract the wounded soldier, was also likely considered.

Prior to that, most "assault rifles" were of the larger calibers.




-k

[Saint Sithney]

I gotta wonder where these 30 and 60 round clips are coming from for these .308 rifles.

That is massive.

[KarmaInferno]

Hell, just a 40-round mag is ridiculously large.

Drum-style mags seem more manageable, though. Beta Company apparently makes them up to 100 round capacity.

That reminds me... I wonder if it's too much to hope for to see drum mags in the MilTech PDF.



-k

[Yerameyahu]

To me, it depends on what they're more like. If they have the recoil, range, etc. of a Longarm, then go ahead and use that. It's certainly true that the existing categories are a poor fit, but what can you do? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Rastus]

That reminds me... I wonder if it's too much to hope for to see drum mags in the MilTech PDF.



-k

We do have drum mags in SR4 already, and they even go up to 100-rounds. It's just that both them and regular extended clips/magazines require a modification to use, as opposed to simply just paying considerably more for spares.

And to just throw my two cents into the original topic; I personally just let Battle Rifles use either skill at the players choice. That way dedicated snipers who couldn't yet get the Automatics skill can share in the love. My half-assed drawback to this is that there is no 'Battle Rifles' specialization.