Nuclear weapons, blast radii Options

[Omenowl]

I looked at the nuclear section of War! and it specified the smallest nuke used a 130P -6/Meter. This seemed awfully small blast radius especially when you have the smallest nuclear weapons in the 10-20 ton range (approximately the same as the M-388 round). That is comparable to the MOAB. I would change the damage to 130P -2/Meter to reflect a bomb that obliterates most things within 40 meters. This would not apply larger nuclear weapons, but for a man portable/launched weapon it should be sufficient. It would allow a team to hide within a foxhole to avoid most of the blast.

[Tzeentch]

-- This has also been discussed in the other thread. A quick fix is to change the damage dropoff to -6/100m which is roughly consistent with the Thor damage.

[Omenowl]

That damage suggestion reflects much larger nuclear blasts in the kiloton range. This is for man portable weapons. These have much smaller blast ranges usually within 200 feet (65 meters) or so. The M-388 round was shot from a recoilless rifle. It is also the size of a weapon used by the US forces to blow bridges during the cold war. The idea was not mass destruction, but rather a manportable artillery round.

I believe people have misread the original War! text and extrapolated the text to tactical nuclear weapons rather than the author's intention of very small nuclear weapons. I myself focused on existing weapons to come about with the approximate blast radius and damage for such small weapons.

[tarbrush]

Remember of course that nukes is SR may or may not be wierdly attenuated. Or at least all nukes set off in the 6th world have been a good deal less powerful than expected.

[PoliteMan]

Isn't there supossed to be a massive release of radiation on nuclear weapons that small which fries anything outside the blast range?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett...clear_device%29
Wiki here says you'd get a "probably" fatal dose of radiation if you were within a quarter mile and instantly microwaved if you were within 150 meters.

[Omenowl]

I remember first hearing about it on the history channel. I believe they said it required the crew to be sheltered in place via foxholes to use it within 200m. Now maybe it should be 130P -1/m if you assume the lethal blast radius of the MOAB is 450 feet. Now buildings would sustain greater damage due to the fact 3-5 psi is not much on the human body, but will collapse some buildings.
Blast effects

The only issue I have with the initial chart if you don't read the text is it does not clarify lethality is based on being in a building rather than simply the overpressure. The lethality assumes flying debris or being thrown rather than the pressure the human body can withstand.

The question is how quickly the radiation drops off and if you are initially shielded from the nuclear blast how much exposure one gets. This site listed the radiation for a 20 ton explosion
20 ton radiation effect

Again this assumes an exposed soldier rather than a soldier in a foxhole.

[Tzeentch]

-- I wouldn't stress it too much, realistically you would break nuke damage out into multiple effects:

Flash: Instant incendiary effect from the blast.
Blast: Concussion damage from the expanding blast wave.
Radiation: Initial radiation exposure and fallout (bigger problem for tactical nukes detonated on or near the ground).
EMP: Electromagnetic pulse of the detonation (not as big an issue for tacnukes).

-- Other than the Cermak nuke (which behaved very oddly, as noted in the canon) has there been any other nuclear detonations in Shadowrun since the timeline diverged? I know there were theories that nukes simply don't work right anymore due to ambient magic.

[Omenowl]

I would leave it as one effect with the after effects of the radiation. At less than 200 meters you are looking at a fraction of second between the blast and the flash. The radiation would effectively be a secondary effect as it rarely kills instantly.

I believe the author actually covered it decently in the sidebar. The smaller the nuclear bomb the more likely it detonates to full effect. Hence the M-388 at its smallest explosion should work to full effect. My only complaint was the blast radius falloff. Larger weapons are basically GM fiat and really a chart does better to mimic those effects abstractly rather than determining damage and condition modifiers.

There were survivors at Hiroshima at 170m and 300m from ground zero. So there are instances where buildings can provide protection from at least 13 kilotons.

[kzt]

I would leave it as one effect with the after effects of the radiation. At less than 200 meters you are looking at a fraction of second between the blast and the flash. The radiation would effectively be a secondary effect as it rarely kills instantly.

At thousands of rads it's incapacitating virtually instantly, death in hours.

[Omenowl]

A soldier exposed receives 8 times the amount of radiation as one in a 4 foot open deep hole. Add a roof and 36 inches of soil cover or 24 inches of sandbags and you can reduce the effect to 1/96 of the exposed blast. Much of the exposure is dependent on location and what is blocking them from the blast. This is why hardened positions could be a real bear even with nuclear weapons along with the lingering radiation effects to the force using nuclear weapons if they plan to occupy such a territory.