For Fun And Profit: Issue 1, Outline Options

[sabs]

There should be a few AA corps out of Brazil though.

Also, Hualpa is a Great Dragon. Lets give him credit for being Smart, and not Godzilla. He wants temporal power in Amazonia. Now he has a plan, a vision, of returning nature to nature, and limiting the damage that meta-humanity has done to the planet. But He can't possibly look at Dunkie, and Lofwyr and think, "those guys are idiots" They have a solid plan for power in the world of 2073. (Well not Dunkie anymore, but before he died).

the RIO Sprawl is probably this really weird place.
There's huge Favallas full of gangs where even the Amazonian Troops won't go into without a tank.
There's Corporate zones with beaches, and beautiful modern mansions and the stereotypical Cyberpunk stuff. But it's all Brazil flavored.

Banco do Brazil probably still exists, but it might be Banco Do Amazonia
Bravox, Chocolates Garoto.

Duratex probably go smooched. Except, that with the Forest regrowing so quickly.. some lumbering might be okay.. with special permits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Brazil
is a great resource. We should go through it and pick up 3-5 companies that would still exist and be A, if not even potentially AA in Amazonia.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Nice list.

Companies that I think could be AA of even subsidiaries of other AA and AAA companies;
AmBev
Banco do Brasil
Caixa Econômica Federal
Gerdau
Organizações Globo (totally owned by Horizon)
Eletrobras, Petrobras and Vale (I don't know how Hualpa would reconcile these companies with his vision)

Companies that could be listed as A companies or subsidiaries:
Banco Safra
Brasil Foods
Grupo Pão de Açucar
Duratex (right now they are already an eco-friendly company, I could totally see them expanding into sustainable growth stuff)
Embratel
Natura (another eco-firendly company)
Odebrecht

[sabs]

it's not hard to be an eco friendly lumbering company when the trees regrow at a magical rate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

Local small companies? Heck, I'm almost sure that Embraer is mentioned somewhere in Shadowrun and they could still be producing aircraft (civilian and military)

They do. They also belong to Aztechnology.

Also, Tir na nOg, Tir Tairngire, and France are all buddy-buddy with Amazonia according to the background. So we might want to make soem of these companies subsidiaries of Telestrian or one of the Danaan companies, siince the elfy countries are economically well off.

As for Eletrobras, Petrobras and Vale - they could survive with a heavy ecological slant. Petrobras could, for instance, generate fuel out of waste (it can be done) and from other, greener sources (it is already going there today aftwer all). Eletrobras could operate fusion plants in Metropole, powering the city, and maybe do sidedeals in electric motors and cars they then export to other eco-conscious nations like the Tirs, Britain and whereever. Vale would probably have evacuated lock, stock and barrel to Portugal, where it sits, goes about it's business and sulks.

I'd think Amazonia would nationalise many corps into a large entity that is state (dragon) controled - kind of like in Venezuela, only even more centralised and with less Hugo Chavez. Most companies of national interest are probably state-owned and work uniquely and according to the state's ideals of equal to better rights for non-metaghumans and infected. Below that, we have many smaller companies producing their specialty products and probably operating under protective laws, and foreign companies that probably have to be locally owned or some such protectivist measure, sicne that's all the rage among the more awakened and paranoid countries in the 6th world.

[sabs]

Are we sure they belong to Aztechnology?

That's.. problematic. And honestly, they probably don't belong to Aztechnology anymore.. Amazonian forces would have taken them over the second war was declared.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

They do. They also belong to Aztechnology.

Really? Well, I'll scrap them as aircraft manufacturer for the Air Force then, what you guys suggest?

Also, Tir na nOg, Tir Tairngire, and France are all buddy-buddy with Amazonia according to the background. So we might want to make soem of these companies subsidiaries of Telestrian or one of the Danaan companies, siince the elfy countries are economically well off.

That's very interesting to know, but I thought France didn't like Amazonia hinting at invading French Guyana, or did I miss something?

As for Eletrobras, Petrobras and Vale - they could survive with a heavy ecological slant. Petrobras could, for instance, generate fuel out of waste (it can be done) and from other, greener sources (it is already going there today aftwer all). Eletrobras could operate fusion plants in Metropole, powering the city, and maybe do sidedeals in electric motors and cars they then export to other eco-conscious nations like the Tirs, Britain and whereever. Vale would probably have evacuated lock, stock and barrel to Portugal, where it sits, goes about it's business and sulks.

Yeah, that's what I'm stuck at, how a military country will produce what's necessary for war without heavy industries? While Vale could still operate in Minas Gerais, its main operation in Brazil is Carajás, there it is located the largest reserve of iron and manganese of the whole world. And it is located deep inside the rainforest...

I'd think Amazonia would nationalise many corps into a large entity that is state (dragon) controled - kind of like in Venezuela, only even more centralised and with less Hugo Chavez. Most companies of national interest are probably state-owned and work uniquely and according to the state's ideals of equal to better rights for non-metaghumans and infected. Below that, we have many smaller companies producing their specialty products and probably operating under protective laws, and foreign companies that probably have to be locally owned or some such protectivist measure, sicne that's all the rage among the more awakened and paranoid countries in the 6th world.

Since Amazonia doesn't sign the Business Accord, I could see them doing something like Aztlan and Aztechnology did. But I think they would go on a case-by-case on which corps must operate freely and which ones must be locally owned.

[Nath]

Embraer is an Aztechnology subsidiary according to Rigger 3, page 21, and Corporate Guide, page 62. Embraer also appeared as a partner of Dassault with the Embraer-Dassault Mistral aircraft (Rigger Black Book, page 48, Rigger 2, page 154, Rigger 3 180) and the Embraer-Dassault Mégère and Faucon helicopters (SOTA:2063, page 76). Dassault itself is an Aztechnology subsidiary (Corporate Download, page 41, Rigger 3, page 21, Shadows of Europe, page 22, and Corporate Guide, pages 18, 62 and 69).
The Rigger Black Book actually says Aztlan use Embraer-Dassault Mistral as attack aircraft (as of 2052).

The best explanation I could come up with is Dassault and Embraer strenghtened their partnership in the first decades of the XXIst century (IRL, Dassault already owns some shares, and if Dassault Rafale wins the Brazilian F-X2 air fighter competition, it will involve technology transfers between the two companies). Aztechnology bought off Dassault at some point. All of this would have happened before the awakened forces overthrew the Brazilian government in 2034.
The Amazonian government would then expel Aztechnology business, nationalizing the Embraer production sites in Brazil. But everywhere the law of the Corporate Court prevails, Aztechnology would retain ownership of Embraer brand name, technology, the maintenance services, and any sites it may have opened in Aztlan or elsewhere (note that, Embraer only production site outside of Brazil IRL would ends in Manchuria, another country hostile to megacorporations). Especially since the Amazonian government probably doesn't give a shit about the maintenance contracts of Embraer customers.

[sabs]

so Embraer Amazonia is Embraer in name only.

See, this is a problem I have with this, why do the megacorps have to own everyone.

Aztechnology owns both Embraer, and Dassault, and a bunch of others.

I think there should be WAY more independent AA's out in the world than there are now.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

@Nath: good thinking, I'm using it.

@sabs: Yeah, I agree with you, I think there should be more big companies that aren't always a disguised AAA company.

[hermit]

That's very interesting to know, but I thought France didn't like Amazonia hinting at invading French Guyana, or did I miss something?

Damn, you're right and I messed up. France doesn't like Amazonia. I suppose the NAN who are not in Aztlan's bag do, though, and probably the CAS tacitly cooperate with them, in the good old tradition of American foeign policy being based on "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Yeah, that's what I'm stuck at, how a military country will produce what's necessary for war without heavy industries?

Well, in Afghanistan, a Kalashnikow is made by blacksmiths. Small arms and things can probably be made locally, heavier gear might have to be imported (maybe from teh CAS? That would be an unlikely alliance, but America has had odder ones).

Since Amazonia doesn't sign the Business Accord, I could see them doing something like Aztlan and Aztechnology did. But I think they would go on a case-by-case on which corps must operate freely and which ones must be locally owned.

Aztech versus Amazonia over the brand rights to the name and logo of Embraer is the longest-running case of the corp court and a constant source of amusement in Zurich-Orbital.

See, this is a problem I have with this, why do the megacorps have to own everyone.

Aztechnology owns both Embraer, and Dassault, and a bunch of others.

I think there should be WAY more independent AA's out in the world than there are now.

There are at least 20, 30 in known fluff, but usually they'Re not used more than once or twice.

[Fatum]

Damn, you're right and I messed up. France doesn't like Amazonia. I suppose the NAN who are not in Aztlan's bag do, though, and probably the CAS tacitly cooperate with them, in the good old tradition of American foeign policy being based on "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

One thing I don't understand about this war is what the hell are CAS and CalFree waiting for. Nobody has ever won a war on two fronts; and even if Amazonia loses, it's prime time to grab at least Austin.

Well, in Afghanistan, a Kalashnikow is made by blacksmiths.

[citation needed]

Small arms and things can probably be made locally, heavier gear might have to be imported (maybe from teh CAS? That would be an unlikely alliance, but America has had odder ones).

Maybe NAN? After all, they too are environmentalists (well, most of them are); yet they have industry alright.

[Nath]

Aztech versus Amazonia over the brand rights to the name and logo of Embraer is the longest-running case of the corp court and a constant source of amusement in Zurich-Orbital.

It is also a provision of the BRA that the Corporate Court is the arbitral body to settle dispute between megacorporations and states. So, first sign the BRA, and the Court will listen to you and help you.

There are at least 20, 30 in known fluff, but usually they'Re not used more than once or twice.

The number would be closer to 40 or 50 actually. Shadows of Europe clearly label 15 corporations as AA in the corporate section (among them, 3 have been absorbed in AAA since), plus a few smaller one in the other chapters. Shadows of Asia feature 15 another, Australia in Target: Awakaned Lands has Tanamyre Resources, and you can add at least a few North America ones on the top of that: Lone Star Security Services, Doc Wagon, Federated-Boeing, United Oil Industries, Universal Omnitech...

Late 2nd edition and early 3rd edition used to focus a lot on the AAA. This was slightly less true before and after that period (old books like NAGNA are actually full of obscure corporations nobody remember). By my experience, gamemasters actually sticks to the AAA even more than the authors do.
In the ends, it turns out the SR background is too thin to haven even only ten corporations that would be at the same time truly global, highly diversified and each with their own distinctive backstory and ongoing plots, like they should (and, for extra difficulty, while not being a Mary Sue...). Nearly all of them fail on one of these point: Wuxing will always be "that Chinese corp", Lone Star "the cops for hire", and so on. If you introduce a AA as being just, say, an Amazonian bank, it is not going to be involved in anything else than plots related to banking business in Amazonia. But there will be no other book about Amazonia for a few years. Maybe someone designing a plot involving banking business elsewhere will use it, but he may use any other banking corp in SR universe.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Nobody has ever won a war on two fronts; and even if Amazonia loses, it's prime time to grab at least Austin.

Well, americans did it, they fought in Europe and Pacific during WWII

[hermit]

Maybe NAN? After all, they too are environmentalists (well, most of them are); yet they have industry alright.

Pueblo could. Hey, that'd bring Horizon in ... how about Horizon supplying them with American weapons, probably made in CAS? The Sioux could sent some advisors, too.

[citation needed]

National Geographics, I'll try and find the issue.

[Fatum]

Well, americans did it, they fought in Europe and Pacific during WWII

Cause that was totally an all-or-nothing war on both fronts. Pffffffft.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

So, I finished the fluff part and will begin work on the gear. Critique please.

[Fatum]

I really like the idea with the ritual.

Not all the infected are contagious. In fact, I believe, most of the ones willing to enlist would be second-generation, and thus, non-contagious at all.

Nuclear subs patrolling the coast? Most nuclear subs are nuke boomers, they are for cold war face-off, not patrols. Unless those are small specifically-designed subs, of course.

I guess you could fit planes into nuke-launch tubes... But yeah, I doubt a vertical launch like that is plausible.

Also, precious little info on actual Awakened in the army - the mages, the shifters, you know, the works. Also, you mention spec-ops units, and I feel it'd be nice to drop a line or two more about each.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I really like the idea with the ritual.

Thank Garou, he was the one who gave me the idea.

Not all the infected are contagious. In fact, I believe, most of the ones willing to enlist would be second-generation, and thus, non-contagious at all.

True, but even so they might be frightening to the rest of the soldiers, better avoid that.

Nuclear subs patrolling the coast? Most nuclear subs are nuke boomers, they are for cold war face-off, not patrols. Unless those are small specifically-designed subs, of course.

Regular submarines would be enough for patrol? My thought on the nuclear subs was to avoid the need of refueling, but if regular subs are enough, I'll change that.

I guess you could fit planes into nuke-launch tubes... But yeah, I doubt a vertical launch like that is plausible.

This one was more of an eastern eggs of all the discussions we had as soon as the book was released when talking about the ships.

Also, precious little info on actual Awakened in the army - the mages, the shifters, you know, the works. Also, you mention spec-ops units, and I feel it'd be nice to drop a line or two more about each.

That was intentional, I was planning on expand more when talking about Awakened Armies in general and give examples taken from Amazonia.

[Fatum]

Well, Wolf Pack subs haunted the whole Atlantic, and had enough juice to do some real damage. So I guess even a diesel sub is enough.
Wasn't there something about new fusion-powered non-nuke-launching subs in the books, though?

[bmcoomes]

Regular submarines would be enough for patrol? My thought on the nuclear subs was to avoid the need of refueling, but if regular subs are enough, I'll change that.

There are nuke powered attack subs and boomers so you would be fine with leaving it as nuke powered. I was in the US Navy and had a few close friends that worked on both types. Plus there was also an article few months back about some of the different subs on yahoo.

Thanks,
Brent

[hermit]

Regular submarines would be enough for patrol? My thought on the nuclear subs was to avoid the need of refueling, but if regular subs are enough, I'll change that.

Nuke subs are damn expensive and wholly unecological, given how they generate nuclear waste. Submarines with fuel cells, like Type 212 subs (the most advanced of that type to my knowledge, which CAN be fitted as nuke carriers too) or the similar Lada class, are more feasible for Amazonia, all the more since I highly doubt the ecofascist dragons running it would allow continued uranium mining (that's actually my main problem with the idea of Amazonia using nuclear subs). They also have extended patrol times and don't need to refuel often.

@Brazilian_Shinobi:

-- Love the ritual too.

-- Made some shadowtalk suggestions. Any of my sugestions are in blue.

-- For Morale reasons, and because they are better suited for Special Forces work anyway, the Infected should gget their own companies.

-- Several dozen Merrow, with 25000 Marines, is pretty miniscule; I edited to hundreds. Feel free to take back.

-- The air force seems a bit oversized, sicne they still have to power all these planes. Think of the Carbon Dioxide!

-- Maybe we should give the metahuman soldiers copious amounts of combat drugs, possibly autoinjectors in their armor? That would work just as well as cyberware would and be a lot more ... eco-minded.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I liked your additions hermit.
And silly forgeting about hydrogen fuel cells.

On relation to the size of their army, I roughly took brazilian current military and increased by one-third.
But if we are going to use subs powered by hydrogen fuel cells, the same thing could be done with aircraft, right?
The only problem today is because the amount of power generated by hydrogen fuel cells are not high enough to generate the thrust combat fighters need, but hey, it's 60 years in the future, so I guess they can fly on handwavium. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

About the drugs, I thought about it, and I don't think it's worth it. Even if you consider them a facist state that does not care about the individual, drug-abuse incidents are always bad PR.

[hermit]

About the drugs, I thought about it, and I don't think it's worth it. Even if you consider them a facist state that does not care about the individual, drug-abuse incidents are always bad PR.

Yes, but many of the metahumans in upper ranks are supposed to be ingigenous to the basin, and from what little I knoew, the use of combat (and other) drugs generally is accepted practice there. Also, who's saying the amazonians care much for PR? And even if, Aztlan got away with genocide. Seems the public in SR - who, remember, considers people shooting each other in the face the new saturday evening family event - just seem not to care.

Also, shrink the air force a bit, I'd say, to 70 or so birds. They have the Wyvern- and Roc-riders after all. Since we're going full Na'vi here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Yes, but many of the metahumans in upper ranks are supposed to be ingigenous to the basin, and from what little I knoew, the use of combat (and other) drugs generally is accepted practice there. Also, who's saying the amazonians care much for PR? And even if, Aztlan got away with genocide. Seems the public in SR - who, remember, considers people shooting each other in the face the new saturday evening family event - just seem not to care.

Also, shrink the air force a bit, I'd say, to 70 or so birds. They have the Wyvern- and Roc-riders after all. Since we're going full Na'vi here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Hehehe, about the wyverns, I was discussing this with Garou, about the possibilities and I guess their best use would be to replace patrolling aircraft and perhaps as close-air support, specially for those Wyverns that are sapient, but to use Wyverns for air superiority? I can't see it happening.
I could see them "importing" Griffins from Europe and training them too, I think Hualpa would be more willing to this than Wyvern riders.

Also, the Brazilian Air Force right now has almost 800 birds, being 200 tucanos and super tucanos, another hundred attack birds and the 500 hundreds left are transport planes, VIP planes, reconaissance and some utility helicopters. Shrinking to 70 birds would be too much.

[hermit]

Hehehe, about the wyverns, I was discussing this with Garou, about the possibilities and I guess their best use would be to replace patrolling aircraft and perhaps as close-air support, specially for those Wyverns that are sapient, but to use Wyverns for air superiority? I can't see it happening.
I could see them "importing" Griffins from Europe and training them too, I think Hualpa would be more willing to this than Wyvern riders.

Yeah, they'd sure have some decent fighter jets there, possibly multirole air superiority VTOL birds like the Eagle-C. Some 60, 70 maybe? But or many other roles - patrolling, scout, surveillance, gound support - I can totally see them employing critters. That would be even less efficient, and it would explain why Aztlan will be on the winning side.

Also, the Brazilian Air Force right now has almost 800 birds, being 200 tucanos and super tucanos, another hundred attack birds and the 500 hundreds left are transport planes, VIP planes, reconaissance and some utility helicopters. Shrinking to 70 birds would be too much.

Right, I was only thinking fighters and bombers. With all the trainers, utility and transport planes, 300 does sound sensible.

Maybe we split the army up? Into an Army of the City and an Army of the Forest?

And we totally, totally need an Aztlaner walker for jungle warfare.