MilSpecTech, What do you guys think? Options

[Fatum]

I say give them one more major suppliment. 6WA had it's faults, but it was a decent job at trying to do a damned hard job.

Well, yeah, if you consider giving half-baked history info with more errors than you can fit on an A4 page (including sidebars missing altogether) and an overview of the countries already covered multiple times (with blatant errors to match at that) a damned hard job, sure, they did a decent job at it.

Dudes, this thread is not about Hackers vs. TMs and not about how CGL fucked up their last releases - we have a ton of threads for those topics.

Well, we are discussing the upcoming release and if it's worth something - obviously we have no way to induce its worth unless we take the quality of its predecessors into account.

[CanRay]

OK, final decision, I had forgotten the issues with Acceleration in "This Old Drone" that has never been addressed. Thank you for reminding me.

I'll get MilSpecTech, but it will be CGL's last shot at winning me over for PDF items. Their next full book will also be their last shot at keeping me as a customer completely.

One thing I remember from Retail days is that it's very damned hard to win a customer, but very, very easy to lose one. My family has proved that with a few restaurants. CGL is lucky they have IPs that have such a cult following in a cult-fan supported market.

Were this any other industry, they'd be looking at closing doors from lack of sales by now.

[Sengir]

Well, at least the Cover Image fits.

Huh, what cover image?

[Sengir]

Nevermind, found it on Pegasus' board.

Same source also yielded two other links I did not see before:

http://catalystgamelabs.com/download/sells...%20Intrigue.pdf
Big Book o'Plot Hooks. Well, the other two "Corporate..." books were a bit lacking in the GMing department. Nevertheless, another full-price product on that matter? Better have some good content (and maps (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

http://catalystgamelabs.com/download/sells...%20Theories.pdf
"new magical gear, spells, and reagents that will enhance the options players have for how magic is used in the shadows." Eehh, sounds like more super-epic ancient ubermagic. And the common factor of conspiracy theories is that the perpetrators are out of reach for the average person - secretive cabals, government officials, old-boy networks, you name it. If something has rules and can be learned by players, where's the shroud of mystery, again?

[Stahlseele]

Huh, what cover image?

RabenAas did that image, by the way.

[Mäx]

Same source also yielded two other links I did not see before:

Here's a link for all the rest of the CGL product sellsheets availebul (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Tzeentch]

-- The gear part of War! was sort of ok. At least I don't feel the need to simply ignore it. There's nothing salvageable in the fluff sections, I'm afraid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) I don't have the vitriol for it that some do, but I just get a "eh, not for me" vibe (I have a hard time getting my interest up for non-North America settings in Shadowrun though).

[hermit]

26100 – Runner’s Toolkit [Boxed Accessory] $39.99

Wow, they still plan to produce it, apparently.

A book of plot seeds shouldn't be called a campaign, though, but 'books that are actually loose ends with some sues and shit thrown in'. And alas, my poor, beloved London setting is next in line to be raped. Poor setting.

Also interesting: Comparing the amount of Battletech and Shadowrun products released.

Also: If MilSpec gear is a pdf job, will it even be canon?

[Stahlseele]

Wasn't Alachia once Queen of England?

[hermit]

Yes, but then she was deposed and never tried again. Also, that was in the 1600s.

[Stahlseele]

And now she's Queen of the (un?)seelie-court, which resides . . somewhere . . around there right?

[hermit]

Unseelie? Alachia? Hardly. The Unseelie are the opposite of what she wants (Brane Deigh's chair, even though nobody would let her because everyone does not want another Bloodwood). The Unseelie are headed by malignant Fae.

[Starglyte]

Nice! I like the books coming down the pipeline. Looking forward to the Conspiracy Theories and Corporate Intrigue. I usually don't pdfs so I don't know if I will get Milspec.

[Stahlseele]

Unseelie? Alachia? Hardly. The Unseelie are the opposite of what she wants (Brane Deigh's chair, even though nobody would let her because everyone does not want another Bloodwood). The Unseelie are headed by malignant Fae.

i tend to get these things mixed up <.<
one faerie court led by an female immortal elf looks like the other to me ^^

[Critias]

Hermit, I can only address the things I can address. I'm not working on errata, it's not my place to make announcements about errata, I've got nothing, personally, to do with errata. I was just out to hop onto a thread and let folks know I've seen MilSpecTech, and assuage some paranoia about it being War! Mk. II or something.

And, in unrelated news, for those of you who are at the "Alright, they get one last pdf purchase from me!" stage of breaking up with CGL, do me a favor. Skip MilSpecTech, and buy The Adept's Way when it comes out, instead. It's my baby, cover to cover, so pretend you don't want more milspec gear and wait to make that your last-chance pdf buy, instead, would'ja? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

More Adept-Run Stuff Critias? Heresy! *snickers*

[hermit]

Hermit, I can only address the things I can address. I'm not working on errata, it's not my place to make announcements about errata, I've got nothing, personally, to do with errata. I was just out to hop onto a thread and let folks know I've seen MilSpecTech, and assuage some paranoia about it being War! Mk. II or something.

Paranoia? Sorry, but that comes off as rather arrogant. What do we have to go on? You don't honestly expect positive excitement after the shit CGL has been producing ever since Hardy had to actually develop things himself.

And The Adept's Way isn't even in the sales sheets yet. This is the first time I hear about it. Is it yet another high magic supplement? Or can you otehrwise give us a glimpse into what's to be in it?

As for errata, if CGL would want to not fuck over it's customers, posting those they've been sitting on for years (yes, that's verifyable, since they were worked into the German releases) would be a start. Not saying that to you, but more as a general statement. I know that's not your call to make.

[CanRay]

And, in unrelated news, for those of you who are at the "Alright, they get one last pdf purchase from me!" stage of breaking up with CGL, do me a favor. Skip MilSpecTech, and buy The Adept's Way when it comes out, instead. It's my baby, cover to cover, so pretend you don't want more milspec gear and wait to make that your last-chance pdf buy, instead, would'ja? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But... I want the explosions... *Pouts*

[Critias]

Paranoia? Sorry, but that comes off as rather arrogant. What do we have to go on? You don't honestly expect positive excitement after the shit CGL has been producing ever since Hardy had to actually develop things himself.

And The Adept's Way isn't even in the sales sheets yet. This is the first time I hear about it. Is it yet another high magic supplement? Or can you otehrwise give us a glimpse into what's to be in it?

As for errata, if CGL would want to not fuck over it's customers, posting those they've been sitting on for years (yes, that's verifyable, since they were worked into the German releases) would be a start. Not saying that to you, but more as a general statement. I know that's not your call to make.

Y'know, Hermit, you sure don't make it very easy to casually pop into a thread and just make a few light-hearted comments, a few informative comments, make a joke out of advertising my e-book, and then to go on with the rest of the day.

Have a good one.

[Tzeentch]

-- While we're bantering on drive-by advertising, anyone want to try to sell me on This Old Drone? I gather it has some issues with vehicle stats (not very surprising given the dartboard assignment of War!) but is it good otherwise?

[CanRay]

Aside from the Acceleration statistic being wrong and identical in every drone, they were very well done I found.

Great if you're doing a Ghettopunk game where you're scrounging up stuff in junk yards and getting junkers to work. Also good for even High-End Shadowrunners who want something deniable. After all, these things can be found and sold anywhere.

Finally, low-end Corporations will be using items like these. As well Mercenary Companies that have a high drone turnover. Parts and replacements are cheap. Demand is next to nil, so even if the supply is limited...

But they are obsolete. Very much so in one case. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Whipstitch]

I don't really care for the connotation of saying "yet another high magic supplement," particularly if we're talking about an Adept book. Dawn of the Artifacts obviously gets people thinking high magic with the title alone and stuff but for the most part t I've felt like there's been a pretty decent spread of magical stuff vs. tech stuff in this edition, with adepts being relatively untapped resources when it comes to fluff if not mechanics.

See, I think Adepts are pretty solid in SR4, but one of the drawbacks of Improved Ability being applicable to so many different skills is that it tends to make any two Adept sheets look kinda vanilla and similar even if mechanically speaking the two Adepts are actually good at totally unrelated disciplines. It's really just a perception/visibility problem rather than any sort of campaign killer and I understand why things are the way they are-- Renaming Improved Ability: Gymnastics to Supernatural Coordination and giving it its own blurb is the kind of thing that causes needless book bloat if left unchecked, after all-- but at the same time perception does count for something, and the perception that a lot of the SR virgins at my table seem to have is that Adepts are less fleshed out than the other archetypes.

Which, would make sense, really-- Magicians deal more directly with the Astral and Spirits than your stereotypical kung fu Adept does, for example, so a lot of the stuff covering Astral Space/Spirits in Street Magic and the like end up feeling more like Magician territory even if that's not an entirely fair assessment. Likewise you could make a strong argument that Improved Ability strongly defines what Adepts are all about but it only ends up taking up 6 lines of text in the book. That's a blessing and a curse. Its rules are efficient and easy to remember, which is great, but it also means that a new player can skim the Awakened section, miss a power and end up wondering why these jokers don't get 'wared up instead.

So, as dumb as it sounds, I think Adepts could benefit quite a bit from something simple as moar page count, even if it's just to give them an extra dose of fluff to help differentiate them a bit from a mundo with reflex recorders. Particularly if we're talking about doing it in the form of a tidy li'l ebook rather than a big ol' tome.

[Whipstitch]

Jesus, that was a big ass post.


I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I totally want Critias to tell me more about his book.

[Cheops]

If you want Adept's Way get the Players' Guide for Earthdawn 3rd Edition. Great support for Adepts and it won't unbalance your Shadowrun game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Fatum]

Aside from the Acceleration statistic being wrong and identical in every drone, they were very well done I found.

Great if you're doing a Ghettopunk game where you're scrounging up stuff in junk yards and getting junkers to work. Also good for even High-End Shadowrunners who want something deniable. After all, these things can be found and sold anywhere.

Finally, low-end Corporations will be using items like these. As well Mercenary Companies that have a high drone turnover. Parts and replacements are cheap. Demand is next to nil, so even if the supply is limited...

But they are obsolete. Very much so in one case. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yeah, and the stats/default mods look a bit like whoever wrote them has never read Core or Arsenal.