MilSpecTech, What do you guys think? Options

[CanRay]

*Shrug* I look at it this way... They don't really make production automobiles that can outrun a helicopter anymore.

But watch "The Gumball Rally". Or read "Gunsmith Cats".

They don't build anything like they used to, and it's only getting worse.

[KarmaInferno]

*Shrug* I look at it this way... They don't really make production automobiles that can outrun a helicopter anymore.

But watch "The Gumball Rally". Or read "Gunsmith Cats".

They don't build anything like they used to, and it's only getting worse.

World record helicopter speed, set last April by a Sikorsky X2: 259 MPH.

Bugatti Veyron Super Sport top speed: 267 MPH.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The previous helicopter speed record was 249 MPH, set back in 1986. I think there's like three production cars that had higher top speeds. Most fast military helicopters top out at about 230 MPH, civilian models top out at about 200 MPH.

Traditional helicopter top speeds kinda stagnated for decades because of physics limitations inherent to propellers - the backwards traveling side of the propeller creates lift and drag problems which increase the faster you go, so you reach a point where you just can't go faster. The Sikorsky X2 solves this by having a second propeller above the first spinning the opposite direction, and a third "pusher" propeller behind the craft mounted vertically to provide extra forward thrust. The company estimates they may be able to push the prototype to as fast as 288 MPH eventually.



-k

[kzt]

I seem to remember Top Gear testing whether a lotus could outmaneuver a an Apache. It turned out that it could, but it's ability to handle being hit by 30mm HE rounds was pretty minimal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I bet it didn't handle rough terrain nearly as well, either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Critias]

Jesus, that was a big ass post.


I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I totally want Critias to tell me more about his book.

Well, I was mostly just out to make a joke from all the folks saying they were only buying one more e-book, 'cause it'd really suck if they all got pissed at MilSpecTech (not that I think they will), and then Adept's Way only sold like four copies or something. I'm pretty sure Pete and Jason wouldn't pay me very much attention with my next proposal, at least, if me and my local gaming group were the only ones who picked it up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) My intention was a quick little quip, not a total thread derailment.

That said, I'll say what I think I can without violating my NDA and/or spoiling the surprise. It's more of an update to existing Adept rules than a groundshaking overhaul of anything, expanding upon existing Adept fluff and providing some crunch to go with it -- Ways have had fluff for a couple of editions now, and I wanted to lay down some actual rules to go along with them, finally. "High Magic" isn't involved, artifacts aren't involved, etc, etc, though the long-established general rise of the mana level is theorized to play some part in why things are changing, in-game. It's my hope that the rules I'm presenting will let Adept players have fun and contribute to their group without having to min/max and super-specialize (like by heavily going the cyber/bio route for the most efficient attribute boosts), while collaborating with their GM to make things fit their character just right.

I know it's in playtesting right now (though comments are coming in), and since it's my first e-book work and I'm new to the timeframe of the process in general, I can't say how long it'll be before anything hits e-shelves. To the best of my knowledge, though, it is the next original e-book after MilSpecTech (which is what prompted me to kid around like I was).

[CanRay]

Yeah, but it's easier to get a driver's license for a Lotus than a pilot's license for an Apache. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Whipstitch]

I like the idea of moving away from super-specializing a tad. I get that PhysAds have always largely been about using magic to improve their inherent abilities, but then I look at the Shamanic Way and think that there's room for a bit of weird stuff that doesn't just give you 50% more skill dice in your main shtick.

Anyway, that's enough derailing for me.

[CanRay]

I still want my MPUV.

[Mäx]

Yeah, and the stats/default mods look a bit like whoever wrote them has never read Core or Arsenal.

Huh, i didn't see much problems in them except for the acceleration stats(and those are obliviously typos, what with all having the same)

[hermit]

A drone the size of a corporate jet having body 3 is weird, for instance.

[Mäx]

A drone the size of a corporate jet having body 3 is weird, for instance.

What drone would that be?
Also you have to keep in mind that drones body just doesn't go higher then 4 in SR4.

[hermit]

Ever checked out the size of modern drones like Global Hawk (compare) or the Reaper (compare, both p8, This Old Drone)? Those aren't really small. Not to mention the only thing that apparently differs a medium drone like thenPredator and a large drone like the Reaper is top speed.

Shows only - again - that SR4 never was meant to plausibly simulate military combat.

[Sengir]

RabenAas did that image, by the way.

Hmm, looks more like Rebecca Guay than what I've previously seen from Aas...not that this watercolor style is bad, but for a gear book I'd have expected something with a more "technical" style, more nurnies and less washed-out color transitions...


@hermit: Why should MST be non-canon? Is there any rule about only hardcover books being part of the canon?

[Dahrken]

While large, I'm not sure they are sturdily built. For exemple an A-10 also has a size similar to the Learjet, but twice the empty weight, while the empty drone weights about 2/3 of the learjet (and 1/3 of the A-10).

[hermit]

@hermit: Why should MST be non-canon? Is there any rule about only hardcover books being part of the canon?

I thought there is?

While large, I'm not sure they are sturdily built. For exemple an A-10 also has a size similar to the Learjet, but twice the empty weight, while the empty drone weights about 2/3 of the learjet (and 1/3 of the A-10).

Half the body would maybe be okay, something along the lines of Body 5 (Reaper) and 7 (Global Hawk). But the same body as a falcon-sized pet drone? Seriously?

For reference, the Entertainment Systems Falcon has the same body score (2) as the Global Hawk (pp118 Arsenal). The description makes clear it is supposed to be the size of a real falcon. Which are slightly larger than the common dove. A McDonnel-Douglas Nimrod has a body of 4, but makes a point of being smaller than previous combat drone models (pp.121 Arsenal).

[Yerameyahu]

It would be nice if vehicle size and Body were separate. :/ Nevermind asking that they not screw with drone Body to avoid overpowering the mod/damage rules.

[hermit]

SR4's vehicle rules are a mess anyway. Yeah, Body and Size should be separate, as they have been in SR2. Alas, they are not. If you operate within SR4's rules as given, you need to keep that in mind.

[Doc Chase]

I'm going to mention a few things just to try and nip the "ZOMG, War! was bad so now everything, ever, will also be bad!" hyperbole in the bud, if I can. My insane spring semester's started up so I haven't had time to try and keep up with posts here on DS lately, but I've got a minute and I want to try and clear a few things up if I can.

While -- like War! -- I wasn't involved in working on MilSpecTech, I've seen it. I'll admit I didn't give it a terribly in-depth readover, scouring it for typos or anything, but I read over it and liked what I saw. The format, in particular, was a new twist on an old favorite of mine. Because it's dealing with, well, nothing but milspec gear, it may or may not be a "must have" book for every campaign out there, but in terms of layout and general content, it's a fun book. Lots of folks have been denouncing War! for not being Fields of Fire II, and given how awesome Fields of Fire was, I can understand the sentiment. That said, if you liked the gear sections of Fields of Fire back in the day, I think you'll like MilSpecTech a whole lot more than you (the generic "you") seem to be liking War!.

All right, I'll have a look at it. I'm also interested in your Adept book, and you had better have given better options for Social Adept metamagics in it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

MilSpecTech aside, I also want to reiterate that some things are changing at CGL right now, in direct response to some feedback (to put it gently) we've received about War!. Typos and layout errors are at the top of our concerns lists, and steps have been taken to put more eyes on every draft. Quite literally the day that the first War! threads were being made and complaints about that sort of thing were rolling in, every chapter of our next major product was posted for more people to be able to read over, edit, comment on, and coordinate with each other with.

Trust me. No one wants the finished product to look good more than the guys who are writing it (especially those of us doing so for the first time, after being fans and players and GMs since SR1). All of us who're gonna have our name inside upcoming products are doing everything we can to make sure it's something we want to have our name on. Complaints are being heard, and we're doing what we can to address the issues that have been raised.

YES this is what I wanted to hear. This had better not be false hope, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) I'll do some sniffing around for swag after work.

[Mäx]

A McDonnel-Douglas Nimrod has a body of 4, but makes a point of being smaller than previous combat drone models (pp.121 Arsenal).

I think thats a reference to CAS wandjina, more then to the super old reaper, which is also body 4(witch is the max body attribute for drones in SR4)
Really there just not much room to diffentiate drones sizes by body attribute scale of 1-4.

[hermit]

witch is the max body attribute for drones in SR4

Uhm, no. There are a couple drones well above that in Arsenal.

[KarmaInferno]

It would be nice if vehicle size and Body were separate. :/ Nevermind asking that they not screw with drone Body to avoid overpowering the mod/damage rules.

Sometimes they are! Look at the anthroform drones.

But it's not consistent.



-k

[Mäx]

Uhm, no. There are a couple drones well above that in Arsenal.

Dammit, how the hell did i miss Tomino and Otomo.
Well that's just further proof that the size and body attribute of drones is only very lightly connected, so it's not a point in the favor of your opinion that global hawk and reaper should have higher body because of their size. Really i think the reason they don't have even body 4(and 0 armor) is because they're really not that sturdy compared to modern combat drones.

[Sengir]

Oh yes, vehicle body stats...I wish they would have changed those instead of making rules for how to sink ships. It wouldn't even require a major overhaul, simply ignore the paradigm that all drones in one size class have to have the same body. And maybe add another column for mod slots, because a Stormcloud just won't carry as many mods as a tracked medium drone.

[Fatum]

I know it's in playtesting right now (though comments are coming in),

Haha, in what now? I know you're kidding, but it's not funny. Not funny at all.

Huh, i didn't see much problems in them except for the acceleration stats(and those are obliviously typos, what with all having the same)

Yeah uh, how about that Reaper with FOUR weapon mounts?

[Mäx]

Yeah uh, how about that Reaper with FOUR weapon mounts?

What exactly your problem with that, standard upgrades aren't in anyway limited by the modification rules.

And it should have 6 weapon mounts, but i guess the writer decided that to be just too many.