Amazonia, Lets talk about Amazonia Options

[Fatum]

THIS THREAD IS A PART OF ALT.WAR PROJECT AND SHOULD BE MOVED, AS WELL

...and even a year hasn't passed.

[hermit]

But a French based Corp/Megacorp that's deeply invested in telesma and 'ingredients' coming from Amazonia for the purposes of Cosmetic Materials, and Medicine, and improved Genetherapy and Bioware is well within the realm of the possible.

In the Shadowrun France book, an agglomeratiopn of several fashion companies forced together by nescessity and the state called 'Mode et Créations de France" is introduced. And say what you will about SRF, but those guys did their research. Esprit and European Arms works, for instance, aren't introduced there, but in Fields of Fire, which I reread right now ... (*sigh*) ... so we could use MCF.

Also, slightly on topic:

>>>>>(Never get lost in Amazonia. Chummer, that place is so Awakened that any map made more than a month ago is out of date. I've never actually seen the land change, but I've been back to plenty of places I'd visited before and found them very, very different.)<<<<<
-Matador (04:20:12/11-13-54)

>>>>>(I know for a fact that Amazonia purchased two Fuchi LandScan ground-imaging sattelites about five years ago. Ares shot them into orbit about a year later. They pass over the whole country, re-imaging the entire nation once every three weeks. And they still use plenty of aircraft to monitor the forest growth.)<<<<
- I in the Sky (07:02:16/11-14-54)

>>>>>(Amazonia's overgrowth problem is one of their dirty little secrets. Whatever they did to re-grow the rain forests seems to go on unchecked. I understand they've even considered limited, strategic deforestation in some areas, though you can imagine the political repercussions of that choice in the Green Nation.)<<<<
- Mike Monitor (10:57:32/11-15-54)

We might want to mention that. Wild magic and feral plant spirits? I'm checking up Predator&Prey next (Harlekin has already been mentioned), since we need all we can get on Amazonia, and there isn't much to begin with.

I'm thinking we redraw that line a bit. Amazonia has most of Paraguay, although the mountainous parts went to Bolivia.

Bolicvia's mountains are (maybe) the domain of neo-Inca tribals, supported by Japanocorps? MCT especially really likes themselves seriously dark magic, having take up what remained of the Gestalt.

[sabs]

well, I was basing from the oh.. I guess completely unofficial released cause he didn't get paid write up for SoLA.

So I guess we don't really have to go that way.

MCT's already got Peru/Chile/Ecuador as a neo-incan thing. But not tribal. Incans were as modern as you get for the time period. I would imagine a neo-incan movement would look like combining the trappings and religion of the Incans with good solid technology.


Imagine Machu Pichu but with modern materials.

[pbangarth]

One could build a powerful counter-force to the Amazonian growth based on the Inca Zeq'e system.

This was a system of imaginary lines impressed on the landscape, all radiating from the Qoricancha, the holiest of shrines, in Cuzco, out across the whole empire. This system linked places of power, called Wak'as, in a spiritual map that corresponded to the conquered peoples of the empire. As the empire grew, the Zeq'e changed to reflect it.

Every year there was a ceremony in which people from all over the empire walked the lines in to Cuzco and back out, performing rituals and sacrifices at the holy places of power, like a giant pulse or heartbeat of the empire. Not only did this demonstrate the breadth and extent of Inca power, but it is one of the finest examples you will ever find of reinforcing an ideology by instantiating it in living behaviour and places. Same idea as the pyramids.

Without a doubt this network can easily be translated into SR terms as a network of ley lines, nexi, wild spirits etc. that has its own agenda, different from that of Amazonia. You want a cool conflict zone, imagine the living forest washing up against the living mountains.

[Nath]

In the Shadowrun France book, an agglomeratiopn of several fashion companies forced together by nescessity and the state called 'Mode et Créations de France" is introduced. And say what you will about SRF, but those guys did their research. Esprit and European Arms works, for instance, aren't introduced there, but in Fields of Fire, which I reread right now ... (*sigh*) ... so we could use MCF.

Beware still, in some other place there really did not do the research, like Airbus having no noteworthy assets in Toulouse or Hamburg.

[sabs]

One could build a powerful counter-force to the Amazonian growth based on the Inca Zeq'e system.

This was a system of imaginary lines impressed on the landscape, all radiating from the Qoricancha, the holiest of shrines, in Cuzco, out across the whole empire. This system linked places of power, called Wak'as, in a spiritual map that corresponded to the conquered peoples of the empire. As the empire grew, the Zeq'e changed to reflect it.

Every year there was a ceremony in which people from all over the empire walked the lines in to Cuzco and back out, performing rituals and sacrifices at the holy places of power, like a giant pulse or heartbeat of the empire. Not only did this demonstrate the breadth and extent of Inca power, but it is one of the finest examples you will ever find of reinforcing an ideology by instantiating it in living behaviour and places. Same idea as the pyramids.

Without a doubt this network can easily be translated into SR terms as a network of ley lines, nexi, wild spirits etc. that has its own agenda, different from that of Amazonia. You want a cool conflict zone, imagine the living forest washing up against the living mountains.

THIS ^^^^^

This is a great idea.

Incan Religion/Magic/Living Mountains with JapCorp backing

[Fatum]

Agreed, that could be pretty cool.

[hermit]

Yup. Japanocorp-sponsored Inca recreationist socialism. That would be something new o the world, set apart from the McCorpstate settings SR4 tried to make of everything ("accessible", "playable").

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

THIS THREAD IS A PART OF ALT.WAR PROJECT AND SHOULD BE MOVED, AS WELL

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Sorry people, I've been quite busy these days. So, trying to get the discussion rolling.

After its initial expansion (Uruguai, Guyana, Suriname, Venezuela, Colombia and Paraguai as a puppet state), Amazonia received warnings to stop it or suffer the consequences by the Corporate Council. Argentina sold its soul to CC, Equador, Chile, Bolívia and Peru formed an alliance backed up by the Japana corps.

Half of Colombia went to Aztlan and later they got as far as Maracaibo.

Lofwyr arranged an agreement between France and Amazonia and for now, is just watching and waiting.

Perhaps we should discuss how is the relationship between Hualpa and Sirrurg. To me, Hualpa seems pragmatic enough to allow, for instance, the mining operations on Carajás Mine (one of the largest mines of iron and maganese in the world). Sirrurg, on the other hand (claw?) would pretty much like to extinguish metahumanity, or so it seems.

I really don't see the Amazonian army issuing many tanks, but I could see a heavy emphasis on infantry and human wave doctrine.

The navy would be pretty much to patrol the coast and negate other navies with some emphasis on force projection from the sea.

The air force, well, I still think Hualpa would allow one to exist, perhaps with more emphasis on close-air-support operations?

[Fatum]

The way I've gathered, Sirrurg not so much wants humanity destroyed as just wants to fight a good fight.
So I don't think he'd be much into politics, except for being a huge (both literally and figuratively) warmonger.

[sabs]

Sorry people, I've been quite busy these days. So, trying to get the discussion rolling.

After its initial expansion (Uruguai, Guyana, Suriname, Venezuela, Colombia and Paraguai as a puppet state), Amazonia received warnings to stop it or suffer the consequences by the Corporate Council. Argentina sold its soul to CC, Equador, Chile, Bolívia and Peru formed an alliance backed up by the Japana corps.

Half of Colombia went to Aztlan and later they got as far as Maracaibo.

I have 2 questions
1) Is this from the books? Or is this your feel on how it should have gone?
2) If it's from the books, which ones?

Lofwyr arranged an agreement between France and Amazonia and for now, is just watching and waiting.

Perhaps we should discuss how is the relationship between Hualpa and Sirrurg. To me, Hualpa seems pragmatic enough to allow, for instance, the mining operations on Carajás Mine (one of the largest mines of iron and maganese in the world). Sirrurg, on the other hand (claw?) would pretty much like to extinguish metahumanity, or so it seems.

I really don't see the Amazonian army issuing many tanks, but I could see a heavy emphasis on infantry and human wave doctrine.

The navy would be pretty much to patrol the coast and negate other navies with some emphasis on force projection from the sea.

The air force, well, I still think Hualpa would allow one to exist, perhaps with more emphasis on close-air-support operations?

France is watching and Waiting, and they have French Foreign Legion both in Cayene, and Caracas.

I don't see the Amazonian army using tanks either, although I do see them using Military grade LAV's with mounted cannons.

I don't think Sirrurg wants to destroy all of metahumanity. For one, he's a Great Dragon he's smarter than to think that's even possible. After all even the Horrors couldn't pull that off with a 1000+ years of getting to rip at their Kaers.

But I do think he's pissed off at humanity and what they did to the planet. I mean, it's quite possible that Gaia has a Great Spirit Form, and it's equally possible that Sirrurg is on good terms with it.

Hualpa wants a power base that gives him:
Magical Power
Secular Power
A safe place to prepare for the coming apocalypse.

Sirrurg wants basically the same things, but with the added bonus of replenishing the earth.

It's possible for example that Sirrurgs Defenses for the "enemy" involve a lot of True Wood(or some kind of Natural Power Place magic). Which is why he wants to regrow the damned Amazon so badly, and why he's upset at Metahumanity for fucking up the earth so badly. The Dragons know they have only so much time to prepare. The Great Dragons are staking out portions of the world for themselves to build up their power base so that when the time comes they can survive. Hualpa and Sirrurg are allied in this goal currently.

Hualpa and Sirrurg are not going to be willing to let Aztlan come in and wreck their places of power. The CC is a problem, and they're going to take the long view for a while. That Lofwyr was able to do any kind of peace treaty, means that Hualpa and Sirrurg are reasonable.

The Mine.. It would depend on what need they have for Iron and Maganese. I could see the mine continuing, but I think it's important to remember that they have a reason besides "we're tree huggers" for wanting the Amazon Forest back to it's former glory.

Great Dragons live for 10's of millenia. They're extremely intelligent, and patient. Even an Impatient Dragon is going to look patient compared to any human or even elf. Most things they do are going to be based on a long term goal.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

After its initial expansion (Uruguai, Guyana, Suriname, Venezuela, Colombia and Paraguai as a puppet state), Amazonia received warnings to stop it or suffer the consequences by the Corporate Council. Argentina sold its soul to CC, Equador, Chile, Bolívia and Peru formed an alliance backed up by the Japana corps.

The bolded part is fact.
The italic part has no mention that I could find, I could see this happening, though.
The underlined part I took it from the SoLA drafts.

The mine, well, it gives a lot of resources for them to trade and build up a military, for starters.
I agree, Great Dragons should be smart and take the looooooooooooooong view. But Sirrurg, to me, doesn't seem like the brightest corn in the crop, he dropped a civilian airplane just for the lulz (or so it seems).

[sabs]

Or maybe he dropped a Civilian airplane because a Spirit Quest told him that the Great great grandchild of an 8 year old on the plane would one day do something Sirrurg would find irritating.

or you know, Sirrurg is a douchebag who takes out Civilian Airplanes for the lulz.

Did you read the Bolivia write up from SoLA? I'm not sure how I feel about it. I'd almost rather go with a Neo-Incan thing.


This is the setup I see making the most sense:
1) Uruguai, Guyana, Suriname, Venezuela, Colombia and Paraguai are absorbed into Amazonia.
2) Argentina sells it soul to the CC to stay independent.
3) Equador, Chile, Bolívia and Peru form a Neo-Incan Alliance backed up by the JapCorps.

The border for Amazonia is the Andes mountains. the Amazon sections of #3 are Amazonian in name, and mostly are a constant PITA for everyone involved. The Neo-Incans can't effectively force project into the magical forest. The Amazonians don't have the man-power to patrol it effectively. So you have a sort of no man's land where the strong rule, and the weak survive at the whim of others. Throw in a thriving Merc trade, magical doodas trade, and resource 'raiding'.

You have Independent contractors with LAV's modified with Wood Harvesting Facilities, and extra Cargo space, etc. They rush in, mine/lumber/hunt for 2-3 days, and then they get the flock out before Amazonia can send a merc team or real troops.

[Fatum]

Or maybe he dropped a Civilian airplane because a Spirit Quest told him that the Great great grandchild of an 8 year old on the plane would one day do something Sirrurg would find irritating.

or you know, Sirrurg is a douchebag who takes out Civilian Airplanes for the lulz.

Or he was after a fight with that magician who managed to hold him off FOR SEVERAL TURNS.
A Great. For several turns.

[sabs]

Holy crap, I missed that part. Which adventure is that in?

[Fatum]

It's in core and 6WA, right in that plane attack paragraph, I believe.

[hermit]

That mage was an Immortal Elf or at least an Awakened Spike Baby though. One of those who participated in the Down-Cycle hunting of sleeping dragons. Sirrug apparently is more pissed about that than other dragons (even Dunks was).

[sabs]

so see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
That's no Lulz.. he had a perfectly good reason.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

That mage was an Immortal Elf or at least an Awakened Spike Baby though. One of those who participated in the Down-Cycle hunting of sleeping dragons. Sirrug apparently is more pissed about that than other dragons (even Dunks was).

Source please. Not that I'm doubting you, just wanted to see what else talks about this.

so see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
That's no Lulz.. he had a perfectly good reason.

Well, it is no lulz, I'll admit it and it would fit his profile of not caring about collateral damage.

[sabs]

Yeah Sirrurg is not exactly a big fan of Metahumans. What's a planefull more or less to him.

[Nath]

Source please. Not that I'm doubting you, just wanted to see what else talks about this.

Dragons of the Sixth World, page 173-174
In the years that followed [the Awakened takeover of Amazonia], Sirrurg was accountable for a scattering of strikes on various corporate and government targets in Europe and South America, culminating with the tragic and senseless attack on an airliner full of innocent beings in 2041. [..]

> Not all of Sirrurg's targets can be chalked up to eco-polluters. In many cases, he's clearly targeted select individuals with no eco-destroying connections. Unfortunately, there's not usually much left to ID the victims by, or in some cases figure out which corpse was the one he was after, so it's hard to construct a pattern.
> Lynch

> Ah, Big Green. Hunting the hunters I see.
> The Laughing Man

Note according to Shadows of Europe, EuroAir is a subsidiary of French corporation ESUS (though the flight was London-Atlanta). Sirrurg attack probably helped a lot the French-Amazonian relationships...

[Doc Chase]

SR4's timeline around the Awakening part will talk about Sirrurg, I believe.

Actually, I think 6WA's main blurb for the year he took it down was the black box from that aircraft. It was clear he was held off for several strikes, at least a combat round or three.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I found some interesting information about Amazonia (mainly Manaus) in a shadowtalk in Augmentation

Utopian cities where environmental improvement is achieved through biotech are already becoming a reality. Just look at Manaus in Amazonia and Asunción, “the Living City,” in Paraguay. Buildings in Asunción are made of biomaterials and artificial hardwoods that collect solar power and rainwater and scrub carbon and pollutants from the air. The city’s recycling and sewage cleaning turnover is astonishing. Manaus is even more amazing with its “techno-organic” amalgamations.
> Glasswalker

So, I guess that means Hualpa can reconcile economical growth with a green agenda after all.
I know I didn't write anything more about Amazonia's army, I'll try to finish it this week though.

[sabs]

It also means that bioware for high end soldier is not unreasonable.