Cut off it's head!, It's the only way to be sure... Options

[J. Packer]

Okay, a question for all you GMs out there. I have been involved in RP for years and years, and once I got out of my adolescence, I've run into tons of players who metagame like crazy. They min max and they know things that their characters wouldn't and the list goes on and on.

But the thing that I just can't get people past is the desire to always be as prepared as possible. I had a friend in college who brought the subject and tag of this post into every game we played. He could be playing a freaking schoolmarm in a gingham dress, and he'd have uttered the phrase "Cut off it's head, it's the only way to be sure" at least once per session.

For total transparency, I'm pretty sure Craig never played a school marm in any of our games.

So, you're setting the scene, and on a whim you toss out something that's utterly meaningless, it's total fluff. But your players latch onto it like it's the scraping claws of the Boogieman. How do you get them back on track?

[Stahlseele]

You probably don't . . and why should you?
Run with it. Revell in their paranoia.
If they try to prepare for everything, they have to make concession . .
DANCE MY LITTLE PUPPETS! DANCE!

[Makki]

So, you're setting the scene, and on a whim you toss out something that's utterly meaningless, it's total fluff. But your players latch onto it like it's the scraping claws of the Boogieman. How do you get them back on track?

I'm happy they roleplay on their own and I don't have to care about keeping the plot running.

[J. Packer]

Yes, valid points, both, but I'm less concerned with relevance to the game than I am with the speed or lack thereof that it occurs at. Too much time spent wondering what to do, not enough doing...

[Neraph]

I've had them do that multiple times on the same run and it delayed the 1 session mission into 4 sessions...

They're supposed to do surveillance on a woman for a week because the fiancee guy wants to make sure she's not cheating on him. He wants matrix feeds, video, and audio for the whole week - easy right? Well, the team (beautifully) sets up those things, then also hacks her 'link and turns on its microphone/camera, feeding everything to the hacker and also runs voice recognition and facial recognition softs on everyone she interacts with. Very well planned.

Then they hack her CHN and the hacker (there's hacker and TM) sets off alarms. The TM gets in the same time and covers things up, but they triggered a response from the corporate spider. So the hacker + TM nuke him out of the node and quickly rearrange things so that it looks like the spider was doing naughty things with the node and sends a SecTeam to arrest the corporate spider. Not low key, but well handled.

Well the mark goes to yoga every morning, then work, then out to some bars (drinking responsibly - just relaxing, and she shoots down potential suitors by saying she's engaged) with girlfriends every night. Her yoga instructor, though, is a guy and they kiss on the mouth. Nothing romantic, just a kiss. The team freaks out again and try searching his info and all this stuff; it turns out he's a highschool best friend of the mark and the guy's single - and he also works for Mitsuhama (the Mark and Johnson do too) in R&D. So instead of trusting a highschool friendship they decide to hack his implanted comm.... and set of alarms again... while he's at work. And then they find out he's gay.

What was going to be a simple "You follow her for a week, nothing really happens (yoga, work, friends, repeat), you turn in info, get paid" turned into "You set off the firewall alarms. Roll Matrix Init.... Roll Wil + Biofeed for dumpshock.... You're being traced..." ect. for four sessions.

[Stahlseele]

You need a Tank-Troll with high combat skills.

[nezumi]

There are two broad routes to address this:

1) Stay the course - Don't change the plot. It's a red herring and your players are nuts, but it's what players do. If they're just waiting on a sound they heard, let them wait. A minute of silence followed by 'alright, forty five minutes pass and nothing moves. What do you do next?' normally has the desired effect. If it threatens to seriously derail everything ('the matchbook was from Reddy's, and the bouncer there is an elf! Clearly that guy knows something!') you can have them roll an intelligence test as an excuse to tell them it's nothing, or just OOC tell them 'hey, that's not really the clue. If it's alright with you guys, I'd rather we not get side-tracked on this red herring'. Or you can just give them ANY answer so they move on (that scratching was a devilrat. Look! There it is! You shot it! Good, let's move on.)

2) Run with it - The noise IS something. Give them the minute of silence - THEN SOMETHING BURSTS OUT AT THEM!!! Make sure it's something freaky awesome so afterwards they high-five each other on their awesome reflexes. With investigations this can be a bit tougher, but totally winging an investigation that has completely gone off the rails can be a lot of fun (bonuses for beer at the table). Just remember you're on the players' team, trying to make a compelling story. They go track down that elf bouncer from Reddy's and HOLY DREK HIS LIVING ROOM IS FULL OF BLOODY HEADS!!!

Really it's up to what you and your group is most comfortable with. Just remember, everyone is there to have fun, and generally 'guess the clue' (or 'guess the not-clue') doesn't cut it.

As a more general rule, if you have guys who 'know all the answers', the answer is to let him hold the books as you just make crazy stuff up. I have a binder of stuff if you want. Creatures that absolutely blow through the established laws of 'this is what is allowed'. Monsters who regenerate unless their feet are cut off and are composed entirely of explodium. Monsters that make all your buddies look like zombies and stumble around the flat in the middle of the night looking for the light switch. People play the 'cut off its head and burn it' card because it feels dependable. Pull the rug out from under them (and then set it on fire).

[J. Packer]

Huh. I guess in a game where anyone can play a mage, "it's magic" doesn't cut it nearly as well as "it's some deep, dark, toxic metamagic." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sabs]

Is this an unsubtle hint (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[StealthSigma]

You need a Tank-Troll with high combat skills.

You are now prepared for every situation that should arise.

[J. Packer]

Is this an unsubtle hint (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I will admit there's more than a little of it on these boards, but nothing that's specifically leapt out at me lately. It just occurred to me that I still don't know how to deal with the situation when it does arise, at least not as well as I'd like.

I'm pretty sure you guys weren't belaboring any points thus far...

[sabs]

The answer is.. you let them run with it.
If you feel they're fixating on The Tie was Green! ZOMG it's a sign! Look at their sheets, secretly roll either logic or intuition + an appropriate knowledge skill/qualities if they have them. Then give them a quite clue by 4.

But if they're having fun..etc.. let it go.

[Makki]

hopefully one char has the Common Sense positive quality as obviously the players don't. so you can always give him a hint

[J. Packer]

hopefully one char has the Common Sense positive quality as obviously the players don't. so you can always give him a hint

There's days I'm tempted to make it a mandatory positive quality for all PCs.

[sabs]

Hey!

I resemble that remark.

[Teryon]

Paranoia is only a bad thing if there arent people\things out to get you. Most PC's *do*. Hell, I prefer cut its head off\nuke it from orbit in RL, just to avoid unnecessary complications and people\situations coming back again and again and again. Play against enough devious GM's and shooting everyone who isnt you starts looking a tad awesome

[Makki]

Play against enough devious GM's and shooting everyone who isnt you starts looking a tad awesome

now we're getting somewhere. it's not the PCs' fault...

[Digital Heroin]

Heeeere we are, born to be kings, we're the princes of the univeeeerse...

Lord, why did I start watching the Highlander series again? On topic, though, I would play with that paranoia and seed a doom greater than even they expect that has no intention of actually messing with them until they go after it. Sure, it might be deadly, but it should make them think twice about going off on wild witch hunts.

[Stahlseele]

You are now prepared for every situation that should arise.

Pretty much.
At least, if you have somebody playing him who wants to get stuff done . .
Quote:"Ah, hell with it, where's my weapon, i'm going to solve this my way now."

[PiXeL01]

I have always rolled with whatever my players come up with. It has send them on so many wild goose chases in the past and several dead ends though sometimes it has been needed to ram them with a Stonewall MBT to get them back on track. In more than one instance I have literally thrown my notes over my shoulders and winged it for hours or sessions on end. But let them have fun and have fun yourself by torturing them.
You could of course have their Johnson suddenly check up on their process, listen to what they have gotten so far and then let him eliminate the false clues just to get the story back in track.

Also in my group I had one player who I always gave Common Sense for free just so I could veto some of his actions

[toturi]

Okay, a question for all you GMs out there. I have been involved in RP for years and years, and once I got out of my adolescence, I've run into tons of players who metagame like crazy. They min max and they know things that their characters wouldn't and the list goes on and on.

If this is SR, then the guy doing that isn't getting RP karma. Tell him this. Let him know that he is actually slowing his character's advancement.

There are different types of min-maxing. Doing it wisely is good for the game and vice versa. I always encourage my players to put a catch-all/general knowledge type skill into their characters' skill lists.

[Charon]

Don't change the core plot but do generate complications when they are going off on wild tangents.

If they are behaving erratically, wasting time and inventing unnecessary complications, they are bound to fail once in a while, especially when there is a time limit (and always impose one if they have that kind of problems).

A few run without pay does wonder to bring back common sense.

[Blade]

I had such problems with players spending 3 hours to prepare a break-in inside a low security building where they could easily just walk in, do whatever they need to do and get out.

Sometimes, I solve this by saying "it's a piece of cake for runners like you so we won't play it" or "There's just an underpaid security guard here. If you give him a few nuyens or show him a gun he probably won't bother you."
When things are a bit more complicated but I still don't want the players to spend the whole session planning the prefect break-in, I use planning pools.

[Tiralee]

Hmm, I'd have to say "Run with it" and make them work for it. Slowly, cleverly, you bring them back to the task at hand, remind them about deadlines, etc.
And encourage off-mission but good RP, planning, etc. It rewards the players and yourself as hopefully they'll get a damned clue and try to focus.


Then again, you can tail that lowbie securacop mentioned earlier.
Consult your notes: "John Q Meatshield, divorved, no savings, no life, no hair, no future"
...And then suddenly have your expert face, TM, mage, etc lose him down a side street, where after an extensive search, you find tips of his severed fingers.



Sometimes the players just look at each other, turn around and walk away.
ie: "Uhhh, d'ya think that house is unguarded now?"

Sometimes the players want to investigate.
"This might be a bad idea."
"Like, since when have you ever had a good idea?"
"When I bought these Stick-N-Shock rounds for cheap?"

Sometimes the players realise they're getting out of the scope of the mission.
"Let's leave things as they are and get back to the house, kids. I'm sure the nice man will be back for those in a little while..."


The times the player do none of these things, that's when you earn your keep as GM and respect from your players.
Game on:)

-Tir

As an aside, we've had a Schoolmarm crit with her steel rule. (Pathfinder) We now refer to it as the Vorpal Board of Education.

[J. Packer]

As an aside, we've had a Schoolmarm crit with her steel rule. (Pathfinder) We now refer to it as the Vorpal Board of Education.

Ah yes, the corollary to the rule about "if you can imagine it, there's porn of it on the Internet" - in this case "If you suggest it as an outlandish notion, someone's played it in an RPG somewhere."