Keeping the mage alive Options

[Machiavelli]

My all so often mentioned black-mage was about to learn the "Shapechange"-spell to switch into a human if the shit hits the fan and increase his physical attributes this way. The GM ignores the book as well as the FAQ´s and so i have to find another way EXCEPT to learn EVERY f***ing "Increase Attribute" spell and bind it on myself. Does somebody have an alternative option for me, now that my holy-grail is gone?

[Aerospider]

Sounds like the GM won't work with you on this project, in which case he'll just cock-block you whatever you come up with anyway, but if you're after a spell that boosts your attributes with one casting/sustaining/quickening (spirits get bound, not spells) see if he'll let you design one. Mimicking four spells in one should come up with some monster drain though, so perhaps there would have to be some new element of trade-off.

[Thanee]

Why would you need to increase all your attributes?

Spells like Armor or (even better) Combat Sense are perfectly valid for protection purposes.

Get a Sustaining Focus (maybe even use Edge to cast them beyond (F) hits).

In general, Invisibility (spell) or Concealment (from a spirit) is also a good way to protect yourself from harm.

Bye
Thanee

P.S. As for the FAQ... SR4A states "Critters refer in general to all non-human creatures ..." - I would also ignore that part of the FAQ, that says you can learn a "Human Form" spell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Mardrax]

Just take a shot of K-10 and hope you live *whistle*

[Ascalaphus]

Well, using Shapechange to turn yourself into yourself++ looks rather fishy to me too. It's certainly not what the spell was intended for.

In my experience, the best way of keeping yourself alive is not to arms-race the GM for better armor vs. better offensive, but to simply stay out of the front lines. Don't make yourself a target.

[Machiavelli]

Basically i wanted to change from an elf to a human. Still quite fishy but you know....^^

Thank you for all the replies. I think i have to take what is left. ^^

[Neraph]

Have you or your GM taken a look at my variant spell that still keeps the viability of Shapechange, Mask, and the Increase (Attribute) spells while still allowing you to take the form of other metas? I've posted it on here a number of times - it should come up if you search Metahuman Form.

That aside... Do you have Negotiations, Arcana, and Enchanting? If so, track down the Calling materials for a decent (F4-6) Possession spirit and get favors from it by means of Negotiations or possibly Binding it. Hell, get one for your Street Sam too.

Thanee's suggestion of Combat Sense is perfect also... and don't forget you can be under the effect of multiple castings, as there is no caveat that says they don't stack. Spells specifically tell you when they don't stack (like Increase Reflexes), or have rules built into them to show you how they must stack (like Increase (Attribute) - to stack the next spell has to be =/+ than your new attribute), which logically leads us to the conclusion that they do stack unless explicitly stated otherwise.

EDIT: Also - do you use FFBA and PPP armors? All the mages I build have a 4 Body so I can get 10/9 armor that's counted as 8/8. I'm starting to lean towards getting a 5 body so I can toss on I think it was 14/12 armor counted as 10/10. Something like that.

[Mardrax]

That aside... Do you have Negotiations, Arcana, and Enchanting? If so, track down the Calling materials for a decent (F4-6) Possession spirit and get favors from it by means of Negotiations or possibly Binding it. Hell, get one for your Street Sam too.

And lose use of all his skills? I don't think he'll like you too much.

[Neraph]

So then pick up Channeling shortly afterward. Done.

EDIT: And he just wanted to survive - he mentioned nothing of retaining control of his character. To that end, grab an Inhabitation spirit instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

[Hida Tsuzua]

While maybe a bit too late, you can always sustain Increase Body on yourself and start carrying heavier armor add-ons like shields, the Securetech PP line, and helmets. Every +1 body needs you 3 dice of soak (1 from Body, 2 from more armor). If you live in a SnS heavy world, grab non-conductivity on your armor, it'll help. If your body is like 10 or so, it becomes hard to find enough armor that stacks, but if that's the case, what's shooting you? It should take several burst fire shots by skilled assault rifle users to bring you down with 25-30 dice to resist damage.

Edit- Increasing your defense check is better than more resist dice. There's a few drugs that increase Reaction and mages typically are good at resisting addiction. Increase Reaction or Combat Sense works too.

As for possession, I suggest against it. While properly used, it's really powerful. But if your GM is nerfing Shapechange, Possession is a no-brainer for him to nerf/ban as well.

[Machiavelli]

This is the problem. My GM strangly has no issues with my other char. that is a possesion mage but he doesn´t like the shapechange spell while this one only grants the attribute benefits possession can provide. By the way, can i get access to the Channeling metamagic while i am only capable to summon materialization spirits? I could also go for a spirit pact that grants "hidden life" to get IMTNW which he didn´t denied. Maybe he only wants me to earn the benefit? I don´t know.

At the moment i already have anchored increase attribute (reaction) and increased reflexes at max. on this char. The next step would be the anchoring of combat-sense and at least from this point on the GM has the same problem he is seemingly wanting to prevent...to let me become an uber-character. In my opinion, there is always the possibilty to get the benefits you want. He simply is putting stones in my way...but what for?

I simply want to save karma, because the anchoring of 3 additional increase attribute spells is really expensive. But if i have to do it to reach the goal, i will go for it. It is just bothering me what the GM does because it is an useless effort. I play to have fun, and up to now i nearly lost my mage 3 times. This means no fun. ^^ I don´t think a +5 or +6 on my physical attributes are a real game breaker. (who cares for strenght and agility if you lack all the corresponding skills and ´ware?). If the possibility exists, i should be able to go for it.

[Machiavelli]

Have you or your GM taken a look at my variant spell that still keeps the viability of Shapechange, Mask, and the Increase (Attribute) spells while still allowing you to take the form of other metas? I've posted it on here a number of times - it should come up if you search Metahuman Form.

That aside... Do you have Negotiations, Arcana, and Enchanting? If so, track down the Calling materials for a decent (F4-6) Possession spirit and get favors from it by means of Negotiations or possibly Binding it. Hell, get one for your Street Sam too.

Thanee's suggestion of Combat Sense is perfect also... and don't forget you can be under the effect of multiple castings, as there is no caveat that says they don't stack. Spells specifically tell you when they don't stack (like Increase Reflexes), or have rules built into them to show you how they must stack (like Increase (Attribute) - to stack the next spell has to be =/+ than your new attribute), which logically leads us to the conclusion that they do stack unless explicitly stated otherwise.

EDIT: Also - do you use FFBA and PPP armors? All the mages I build have a 4 Body so I can get 10/9 armor that's counted as 8/8. I'm starting to lean towards getting a 5 body so I can toss on I think it was 14/12 armor counted as 10/10. Something like that.

I think your variant is ever more a no-go for him, i also tried to limit the range of my acid-stream spell for a drain reduction of 1, mainly because i don´t think that it is looking cool if you spit 300 m or more. But think what? He refused. Acutually i limited the range without drain reduction because if i run, i do it with style.^^

Yes, i have all of the mentioned skills, i will have a try the next time i play. There is still a nasty toxic-free-spirit on a junkyard that is on my red-list. Maybe i can have a pact with him if i don´t kick the s***it out of him.^^ I already use FFBA because i only have a body of 3 and i am really in need of armor. Sometimes you simply cannot hide invisible and under the effect of a concealment power 100m away from your team. And exactly these situations are the risky ones for the common low-body mage with little armor.

[pbangarth]

So then pick up Channeling shortly afterward. Done.

Well, take a close look at the wording of Channeling: "...developed by possession tradition magicians to enhance their control of spirits." Sound like it's limited to possession tradition magicians.

[Thanee]

EDIT: Also - do you use FFBA and PPP armors? All the mages I build have a 4 Body so I can get 10/9 armor that's counted as 8/8. I'm starting to lean towards getting a 5 body so I can toss on I think it was 14/12 armor counted as 10/10. Something like that.

Given that the normal limit of BODx2 applies (and not the optional custom-fit or military-grade armor and similar stuff), and without adding cyberware and magic into the mix, I don't think you can get beyond 13/11 for BOD5 (using full-body FFBA and whatever else is enough to fill out the remaining 7/9), unless you want to get those AGI/REA penalties. Typically, it will be more like 12/11, using the half-body FFBA, because you might not want to have your head covered depending on the situation (looks a bit strange in non-warzone environments).

Bye
Thanee

[Fortinbras]

Basically i wanted to change from an elf to a human. Still quite fishy but you know....^^

Thank you for all the replies. I think i have to take what is left. ^^

I'm with your GM on this one. Changing from a metahuman to a metahuman just to boost your stats is breaking, at the very least, the intention of the spell if not the letter.
There are tons of spells to keep the mage alive(the mage in my game has his Increased Body on a sustained focus and a boat load of armor to boot.)
Other than that, I might suggest getting out of the way of the bullets! Mage goggles are your friend.

Oh, and kill that toxic spirit. All the armor in the world won't save you from the wrath of the Draco Foundation.

[Neraph]

Well, take a close look at the wording of Channeling: "...developed by possession tradition magicians to enhance their control of spirits." Sound like it's limited to possession tradition magicians.

Are you also saying that no one but GM auto workers can drive cars? "Developed by" does not equal "only usable by."

[pbangarth]

Are you also saying that no one but GM auto workers can drive cars? "Developed by" does not equal "only usable by."

Building a piece of machinery for general use is different from structuring magic to "enhance their control".

[Mardrax]

Regardless, magicians can teach each other things. Wether or not something is developped for anyone specifically doesn't prevent it from being used for/by others.
There is nothing in RAW to prevent anyone from taking Channeling metamagic. There is no functional difference in RAW between traditions beyond drain attribute and selection of spirits to summon.

[pbangarth]

The actual way that spirits appear in the physical plane is a fundamental difference among traditions. A metamagic designed to alter the way possession works is as different from metamagics usable by materialization magicians as are metamagics designed to be used by adepts.

[Tanegar]

The actual way that spirits appear in the physical plane is a fundamental difference among traditions. A metamagic designed to alter the way possession works is as different from metamagics usable by materialization magicians as are metamagics designed to be used by adepts.

Adept metamagics are explicitly marked "Adept-only." Channeling is not marked "Possession-tradition magicians only."

[Doc Byte]

Does somebody have an alternative option for me, now that my holy-grail is gone?

Sure, if you're willing to sacrifice 1 point of magic and can spent 160.000 bucks:

Dermal Plating 2
Muscle Augmentation 2
Muscle Toner 2

That's 0,98 essence at beta-grade. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Mardrax]

Adept metamagics are explicitly marked "Adept-only." Channeling is not marked "Possession-tradition magicians only."

This. Also, technically, the way spirits interact with the material world isn't different at all between traditions, just the spirits the follower can summon.

[pbangarth]

Adept metamagics are explicitly marked "Adept-only." Channeling is not marked "Possession-tradition magicians only."

There's the crux of the argument. Some, myself included, believe the text can only be read as saying this is a metamagic made by possession tradition magicians to affect how possession works on their spirits. That the description is not as explicit as it could/should be is not surprising, for this game or any other.

[Mardrax]

There's the crux of the argument. Some, myself included, believe the text can only be read as saying this is a metamagic made by possession tradition magicians to affect how possession works on their spirits. That the description is not as explicit as it could/should be is not surprising, for this game or any other.

So that would mean everyone could take it and benefit from it, in case of being possessed by a possession tradition spirit, but not when possessed by a free spirit or ally spirit?
Since that would be the logical result of that reading.

[Irion]

My GM strangly has no issues with my other char. that is a possesion mage but he doesn´t like the shapechange spell while this one only grants the attribute benefits possession can provide.

Because it is so cheesy, you may dip nachos in it.

At the moment i already have anchored increase attribute (reaction) and increased reflexes at max. on this char. The next step would be the anchoring of combat-sense and at least from this point on the GM has the same problem he is seemingly wanting to prevent...

Did you ever thought about, how he will get through wards?