My all so often mentioned black-mage was about to learn the "Shapechange"-spell to switch into a human if the shit hits the fan and increase his physical attributes this way. The GM ignores the book as well as the FAQ´s and so i have to find another way EXCEPT to learn EVERY f***ing "Increase Attribute" spell and bind it on myself. Does somebody have an alternative option for me, now that my holy-grail is gone?

Sounds like the GM won't work with you on this project, in which case he'll just cock-block you whatever you come up with anyway, but if you're after a spell that boosts your attributes with one casting/sustaining/quickening (spirits get bound, not spells) see if he'll let you design one. Mimicking four spells in one should come up with some monster drain though, so perhaps there would have to be some new element of trade-off.

Why would you need to increase all your attributes?

Spells like Armor or (even better) Combat Sense are perfectly valid for protection purposes.

Get a Sustaining Focus (maybe even use Edge to cast them beyond (F) hits).

In general, Invisibility (spell) or Concealment (from a spirit) is also a good way to protect yourself from harm.

Bye
Thanee

P.S. As for the FAQ... SR4A states "Critters refer in general to all non-human creatures ..." - I would also ignore that part of the FAQ, that says you can learn a "Human Form" spell.

Just take a shot of K-10 and hope you live *whistle*

Well, using Shapechange to turn yourself into yourself++ looks rather fishy to me too. It's certainly not what the spell was intended for.

In my experience, the best way of keeping yourself alive is not to arms-race the GM for better armor vs. better offensive, but to simply stay out of the front lines. Don't make yourself a target.

Basically i wanted to change from an elf to a human. Still quite fishy but you know....^^

Thank you for all the replies. I think i have to take what is left. ^^

Have you or your GM taken a look at my variant spell that still keeps the viability of Shapechange, Mask, and the Increase (Attribute) spells while still allowing you to take the form of other metas? I've posted it on here a number of times - it should come up if you search Metahuman Form.

That aside... Do you have Negotiations, Arcana, and Enchanting? If so, track down the Calling materials for a decent (F4-6) Possession spirit and get favors from it by means of Negotiations or possibly Binding it. Hell, get one for your Street Sam too.

Thanee's suggestion of Combat Sense is perfect also... and don't forget you can be under the effect of multiple castings, as there is no caveat that says they don't stack. Spells specifically tell you when they don't stack (like Increase Reflexes), or have rules built into them to show you how they must stack (like Increase (Attribute) - to stack the next spell has to be =/+ than your new attribute), which logically leads us to the conclusion that they do stack unless explicitly stated otherwise.

EDIT: Also - do you use FFBA and PPP armors? All the mages I build have a 4 Body so I can get 10/9 armor that's counted as 8/8. I'm starting to lean towards getting a 5 body so I can toss on I think it was 14/12 armor counted as 10/10. Something like that.

And lose use of all his skills? I don't think he'll like you too much.

So then pick up Channeling shortly afterward. Done.

EDIT: And he just wanted to survive - he mentioned nothing of retaining control of his character. To that end, grab an Inhabitation spirit instead.

While maybe a bit too late, you can always sustain Increase Body on yourself and start carrying heavier armor add-ons like shields, the Securetech PP line, and helmets. Every +1 body needs you 3 dice of soak (1 from Body, 2 from more armor). If you live in a SnS heavy world, grab non-conductivity on your armor, it'll help. If your body is like 10 or so, it becomes hard to find enough armor that stacks, but if that's the case, what's shooting you? It should take several burst fire shots by skilled assault rifle users to bring you down with 25-30 dice to resist damage.

Edit- Increasing your defense check is better than more resist dice. There's a few drugs that increase Reaction and mages typically are good at resisting addiction. Increase Reaction or Combat Sense works too.

As for possession, I suggest against it. While properly used, it's really powerful. But if your GM is nerfing Shapechange, Possession is a no-brainer for him to nerf/ban as well.

This is the problem. My GM strangly has no issues with my other char. that is a possesion mage but he doesn´t like the shapechange spell while this one only grants the attribute benefits possession can provide. By the way, can i get access to the Channeling metamagic while i am only capable to summon materialization spirits? I could also go for a spirit pact that grants "hidden life" to get IMTNW which he didn´t denied. Maybe he only wants me to earn the benefit? I don´t know.

At the moment i already have anchored increase attribute (reaction) and increased reflexes at max. on this char. The next step would be the anchoring of combat-sense and at least from this point on the GM has the same problem he is seemingly wanting to prevent...to let me become an uber-character. In my opinion, there is always the possibilty to get the benefits you want. He simply is putting stones in my way...but what for?

I simply want to save karma, because the anchoring of 3 additional increase attribute spells is really expensive. But if i have to do it to reach the goal, i will go for it. It is just bothering me what the GM does because it is an useless effort. I play to have fun, and up to now i nearly lost my mage 3 times. This means no fun. ^^ I don´t think a +5 or +6 on my physical attributes are a real game breaker. (who cares for strenght and agility if you lack all the corresponding skills and ´ware?). If the possibility exists, i should be able to go for it.

I think your variant is ever more a no-go for him, i also tried to limit the range of my acid-stream spell for a drain reduction of 1, mainly because i don´t think that it is looking cool if you spit 300 m or more. But think what? He refused. Acutually i limited the range without drain reduction because if i run, i do it with style.^^

Yes, i have all of the mentioned skills, i will have a try the next time i play. There is still a nasty toxic-free-spirit on a junkyard that is on my red-list. Maybe i can have a pact with him if i don´t kick the s***it out of him.^^ I already use FFBA because i only have a body of 3 and i am really in need of armor. Sometimes you simply cannot hide invisible and under the effect of a concealment power 100m away from your team. And exactly these situations are the risky ones for the common low-body mage with little armor.

Well, take a close look at the wording of Channeling: "...developed by possession tradition magicians to enhance their control of spirits." Sound like it's limited to possession tradition magicians.

Given that the normal limit of BODx2 applies (and not the optional custom-fit or military-grade armor and similar stuff), and without adding cyberware and magic into the mix, I don't think you can get beyond 13/11 for BOD5 (using full-body FFBA and whatever else is enough to fill out the remaining 7/9), unless you want to get those AGI/REA penalties. Typically, it will be more like 12/11, using the half-body FFBA, because you might not want to have your head covered depending on the situation (looks a bit strange in non-warzone environments).

Bye
Thanee

I'm with your GM on this one. Changing from a metahuman to a metahuman just to boost your stats is breaking, at the very least, the intention of the spell if not the letter.
There are tons of spells to keep the mage alive(the mage in my game has his Increased Body on a sustained focus and a boat load of armor to boot.)
Other than that, I might suggest getting out of the way of the bullets! Mage goggles are your friend.

Oh, and kill that toxic spirit. All the armor in the world won't save you from the wrath of the Draco Foundation.

Are you also saying that no one but GM auto workers can drive cars? "Developed by" does not equal "only usable by."

Building a piece of machinery for general use is different from structuring magic to "enhance their control".

Regardless, magicians can teach each other things. Wether or not something is developped for anyone specifically doesn't prevent it from being used for/by others.
There is nothing in RAW to prevent anyone from taking Channeling metamagic. There is no functional difference in RAW between traditions beyond drain attribute and selection of spirits to summon.

The actual way that spirits appear in the physical plane is a fundamental difference among traditions. A metamagic designed to alter the way possession works is as different from metamagics usable by materialization magicians as are metamagics designed to be used by adepts.

Adept metamagics are explicitly marked "Adept-only." Channeling is not marked "Possession-tradition magicians only."

Sure, if you're willing to sacrifice 1 point of magic and can spent 160.000 bucks:

Dermal Plating 2
Muscle Augmentation 2
Muscle Toner 2

That's 0,98 essence at beta-grade.

This. Also, technically, the way spirits interact with the material world isn't different at all between traditions, just the spirits the follower can summon.

There's the crux of the argument. Some, myself included, believe the text can only be read as saying this is a metamagic made by possession tradition magicians to affect how possession works on their spirits. That the description is not as explicit as it could/should be is not surprising, for this game or any other.

So that would mean everyone could take it and benefit from it, in case of being possessed by a possession tradition spirit, but not when possessed by a free spirit or ally spirit?
Since that would be the logical result of that reading.

Because it is so cheesy, you may dip nachos in it.


Did you ever thought about, how he will get through wards?

Ahhhhm....what happens if you are unwillingly possessed by such a spirit and if you have the channeling metamagic?

Nothing special as the description mentions 'willingly possessed'.

It also mentions 'posession tradition magicians', which hints strongly at the metamagic being only available to mages rather than mages and adepts.

There's no mention of the origin of the possessing's spirit, so I would say it works with any spirit able to possess as long as the possession is a voluntary one.

Though it raises the question : what happens if the possessing spirits decides that he'd prefer being fully in charge and tries to remove the mage's control and turn the situation into a standard unvoluntary possession ?

As long as a spirit owes favors it would be unable to do so. That's why you need to be careful how many favors you're using. And yes, you can get favors from Calling.

Except his GM is not nerfing Shapechange, he's just enforcing the actual rules of chapechange, one of with is that you can't use it to change in to a metahuman.

The FAQ says you can change into a human, but not into a metahuman.

Bye
Thanee

Lots of people are biased against the FAQ and they really enjoy ignoring the canon existance of metahuman form spells that dragons can cast (not the Great power).

Mybe, but the FAQ is a flaming bile of crap and is mostly a collection of various peoples houserules and should be disrecarded in all rules discussions.

Keeping the mage alive is really simple. Buy the most expensive comlink you can find then trick it out with flashing lights, whirligigs, and other obvious attention-drawing casemods.

No one ever geeks the decker first.

Begging the question is not the phrase you're looking for.

I have always found being the mage is pretty easy in combat.

Hang back
Use cover
Choose your targets
Carry a gun (if you have no obvious firearm you look more mage like)

Once they know your a mage keep the Troll between you and the enemy (hey you only need LOS for a moment)



If your trying to blend in with people and your not very well known by your enermy then they might not realise your the mage until after your first impressive spell. If I walked my mage into a fight and everyone always attacked me first regardless of if they knew us or had a very good idea who we were I would call metagaming by the GM. NPC's still have to have limits to what they know about a team and what they can percieve in the game. Dont make it easy on them by walking around looking like merlin dress like everyone else keep the foci less showy (rings and amulets dont have to be OTT) dont make much of a show about being the mage and people wont be able to pick you out for first kills.

I don´t have concerns with „geek the mage first“. If I am so stupid to show that I am the mage, I earn being shot. Usually I run around in the same armor as my comrades with the same amount of tech (commlink, microtransceiver, etc.) but I don’t carry a gun (strength 1). The problem is, that you sometimes don´t have the possibility to cast a spell from a big distance or that you are visible because you cannot cast corresponding spells or summon spirits with concealment. You cast spells in a complex action, so no simple action left to go back to your cover. You can drop on the ground with a free action but I don´t think that this is a good solution during a fight. If there is no cover right in front of you. So you WILL sometimes get a shot, and the topic is to survive it even with a low body and therefore lower armor than your comrades. Of course I can raise my dodge pool to 20+, but a good gun-bunny also has a dice pool of 20+ and we all know that we are doing SR4A, so high dice pools are no garanty for a good roll. If I have 4 successes with 20 dices and he has 10, I am toast. And there is not enough resist-pool left to be able to go on without being injured/stunned.

I get the idea you're gearing up against unreasonably good opponents here. Just tell the GM that there's no denying it: if he pulls out all the stops he can certainly kill your PC, hopefully he'll feel really manly about it. Seriously, how often do you get assaulted by multiple gunbunnies with 20+ dice?

Survival tip #1: don't get shot at
[*] In D&D, nobody expects the mage to be at the front line. Just because SR mages are allowed to wear armor is no reason to go to the front line. If other people are the front line, more of the shooters will focus on them.
[*] Hide
[*] Take cover; opponents will focus on the not-covered opponents first
[*] Create cover/concealment: there are spells for it, but smoke grenades are also an option
[*] Don't provoke people: don't show off that you're the dangerous one. Make sure the combat troll looks extra-scary and you look meek and scared.
[*] Don't look like a mage

Survival tip #2: armor
[*] Have a Body of at least 5.
[*] Have maximum FFBA. It's the most efficient Armor-for-Body protection.
[*] Have electrical insulation. Electrical damage penetrates normal armor too easily and the Stun damage is dangerous since you'll also take some Stun Drain now and then.
[*] Make your armor look like not armor. For example a Lined Coat or Actioneer Bussiness Suit. People who look armored look like important combatants that need more attention.

Survival tip #3: not getting hit
[*] Try to get to cover before you start casting spells. People will try to Geek The Mage as soon as you start casting spells, so you need to be behind cover first.
[*] Magic and technology can make cover. Barrier spells for example, and foam grenades.
[*] Give the enemy visibility penalties. Magic and technology can do both these things, for example smoke grenades. Cover and concealment are cumulative and can make you a very difficult target.
[*] Most of the time, a medium-sized dodge pool should be sufficient. Instead of having so much dodge that you can also expect not to get hit against an exceptional shooter, you can try to use Edge for those cases. A big Edge pool is a more versatile investment, also useful against Drain.

Survival tip #4: strike first and decisively
[*] If you have an Intuition tradition, use that; otherwise use Reaction. Having a good Initiative means you can prevent people from taking a good shot at you.
[*] Good Perception means it's harder to surprise you. Maybe have a Watcher spirit scouting ahead all the time (around corners) against ambushes or accidental bumping into people.
[*] Good stealth helps against being a target, but also gives you a chance to surprise people.

Survival tip #5: consider Augmentations
[*] Cybereyes allow Thermographic vision and Flare Compensation, meaning visibility modifiers will be in your favor more often. With Laser Eyelight/Lowlight, you can shoot the lightbulbs in order to achieve one-sided Total Darkness.
[*]Trauma dampeners, Platelet Factories and Pain Editors (and some other thing I forget) divide and reduce injury, which is also worthwhile against Drain.

Isn't that a bit of an overstatement?

Bye
Thanee

You can get by with Body 4 if you take FFBA plus either an Evo HEL suit or Actioneer Bussiness Clothes, but all other serious armor would encumber you.

Nice ideas, but i play a mage. Main-problem no.1 for a mage is a lack of karma. I cannot advance in magic if i spend all my karma in raising body to 5 or an maxed edge attribute. This is why i try to solve the problem magic-like.^^ Shapechange would be the magical "I WIN" button, but the good old GM, you know....

If somebody wins at a tabletop RPG, everybody loses...

I won in Deadlands: Hell On Earth once...

The character's last words before he turned into an abomination of pure evil was, deadpan, "Run..."

Poor bastard never saw it coming.

I suppose you're in trouble because you didn't invest in Body at CharGen and now it's expensive to go there. Because it's really quite affordable if you get it a CharGen. Lots of bod for your buck.

I think so too.^^

So we're talking about improving the durability of an existing character here, right? (Because if it's still on the drawing table, splurging BP on Body is still a possibility.) Why don't you post a general outline of what you already have, maybe we can come up with clever (not too powergamey) ways to improve your odds.

QFT

If the Bard wasn't my sig, it would be this. The robbed that smiles, Machi, the robbed that smiles!

You play a mage, so use the spells you have.

Firstly:
Combat Sense, detect enemies (extended), Increase Body, Increase Reflexes, Armor, Physical barrier
All these spells will improve your survivability in combat.

Secondly:
FormFitting Body Armor: wear it. Even if you only have a 2 body. Besides, you've got a sustaining focus with Increase Body on it. That's gonna help.

Thirdly: Stay out of Background counts

Yeah, see if you can slip past the GM the idea of form fitting armor, over form fitting armor tailored to fit over the inner layer, but under form fitting armor tailored to fit over it....

You mean aspect your lodge, and stay inside it at all times? Spirit summoning couch potatoes ftw!
Do note that a spirit actually has more mobility than you do, with your anchored spells.