Average pay for a run - Dumpshock Forums

Average pay for a run, How much do you normally get paid?

Including incidentals, how much are you paid on an average run?
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lacemaker View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 01:26 AM Post #26
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 100 Joined: 21-November 03 Member No.: 5,836	I've been playing since first edition and I've noticed a real reduction in the size of payments in published adventures since that time. A lot of the early adventures had runners ending up with between 50 and 100 K nuyen for a run, while the shadowrun companion suggested a scale for cash to karma which (apart from it being a very stupid idea to allow karma to be bought for cash) would have had me giving out 30+ karma pretty often... I tend to accept the higher payment scale as both desirable and realistic. A key part of improving characters in shadowrun is letting them buy the cool stuff they couldn't afford (or get hold of) at char gen. If you've got them clearing 2 k a month after lifestyle costs that aspect of the game pretty much disappears until you specifically decide you're going to give them a run which lets them get their alpha wired 2... I've never had a problem with players ending up too comfortably off, even with largish payoffs there's plenty to spend it on, and you can introduce more realistic expenses in the course of a run. As for realism, corporations will be willing to pay a great deal for shadowruns which will influence revenues to the tune of millions, tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of nuyen, and even smallish runs will typically have impacts on this scale - you need to cut the pay when runners are working for private citizens, but that's not a huge problem. From the runner's end, pay scales in the 10K nuyen range per month are simply unrealistic - you're talking about guys with a million dollars worth of gear, magical ability found in one person in 10,000 and/or world calss skills in a variety of areas. Instead of risking their lives running the shadows most ordinary runners could be earning massive amounts of money using their skills in other sectors. Adopting low pay scales many teams could make more stealing cars. And I just hate it when a team feels it has to stop and steal the pistol of every downed security guard because fencing random gear could doubling their pay for the mission...

Steel Machine View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 04:39 AM Post #27
Target Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Michigan Member No.: 6,098	I think each group has to find their own happy medium-if million dollar runs don't unbalance your group, then I see no problem with it. If ten thousand nuyen is a god send, well as long as you're having fun, who cares?

Capt. Dave View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 01:26 PM Post #28
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183	I agree completely with lacemaker on this one. In the game I GM, I use a fairly generous pay scale, and in exchange my runners no longer drag bodies and equipment to a Bulldog Step-Van they bought for the purpose. PC1: Hey, Dave, can I somehow filter out these Boosted Reflexes from this guy and sell them? ME: That's awful. PC1: Yeah...but can I do it? ME: How 'bout I up your pay per run and we don't do this every time? PC1: Sounds fair. PC2: Umm...then can we sell the van back at full price? ME: I really hate you guys sometimes. PC2: Yeah...but can we? GMs - Pay your runners well, because you'll regret it when they cheerfully announce they have a new van, and suddenly rival the Yakuza in organlegging and "used" cyberware sales.

blakkie

Mar 23 2004, 07:34 PM

Post #29

Dragon

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QUOTE (Capt. Dave @ Mar 23 2004, 01:26 PM)

GMs - Pay your runners well, because you'll regret it when they cheerfully announce they have a new van, and suddenly rival the Yakuza in organlegging and "used" cyberware sales.

...and the downside to that happening is? The Yaks have to get their merchandise from somewhere. :wobble: I think i remember a thread here a long time back talking about how team had bought a refrigerated van for storing bodies to deliver the bodies is optimum condition. ;)

In our group we definately end up dealing in organlegging and "field tested" cyber sales (spotty $$ there due to damaging), and ripping lose anything man-portable (and a few things not man-portable). Also day jobs come into play, like pimping....though that example didn't work out that well for the SO's character since he was constantly getting shook down for more money than his 2 girls were pulling in. :(

We actually do tend to see carjacking by our group and the occational armed robbery. It kinda takes me back to my very first session of SR. The GM put me in my house some ways from the rest of the group, I hadn't taken a car. They were in the Barrens. The Barrens didn't sound to me like a place that had bus service, or even a place that taxis would regularly visist...without a good deal of cash. So faced with the prospect of walking, i naively just walked a block over from my house and jacked a car.

QUOTE

From the runner's end, pay scales in the 10K nuyen range per month are simply unrealistic - you're talking about guys with a million dollars worth of gear, magical ability found in one person in 10,000 and/or world calss skills in a variety of areas. Instead of risking their lives running the shadows most ordinary runners could be earning massive amounts of money using their skills in other sectors.

But don't forget what 'runners are, they are outlaws. Many are in the shadows and living life as a wage slave, or in another "legitemate" occupation, because:
1) "Normal life" is too boring.
2) Living in society at large is not possible due to past legal issues.
3) They are effectively unemployable due to personality quirks, such having a tendancy to rip off people's head and spitting down their gaping necks.
4) Living outside the shadows is not feasible due to physical/social conditions (like being HMVV infected, or being a big freakin' rat).
5) They got sucked into 'running by the thought of making it rich through no work.
6) Did I mention the boredom factor?

Of course you tend to get into Way of the Gun type scenarios, and the like. But many people living as far on the wrong side of the law as runners do are eventually going to end up in a very messy situation, even in the 6th world. I believe Harvey Keitel's character summed it up best in Thelma & Louise:

Max: You know, the one thing I can't figure out are these girls real smart or real real lucky?
Hal Slocumb: Don't matter. Brains'll only get you so far and luck always runs out.

Steel Machine View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 07:53 PM Post #30
Target Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Michigan Member No.: 6,098	Yeah, I would be inclined to agree with that, but maybe not everyone is intrested in replaying Reservoir Dogs each game. (Their loss I say, but it is their game too.) It always becomes a choice of whats fun and what isn't-and sometimes people forget the GM needs to have fun too.

Smiley View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 08:26 PM Post #31
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191	You're right, brains DO only get you so far and luck DOES run out. That's why the pay scale has to be worth the risk. There are, of course, other factors. e.g.: How new to the streets the runners are What they've gotta do How much they can charm outta Mr. J Various expenses (like the Bulldog Stepvan for... acquisitions. But i digress.) The resistance they're going to meet Accomplishments above and beyond the call of duty Bottom line, every run is going to pay a little different.

BitBasher

Mar 23 2004, 08:48 PM

Post #32

Traumatizing players since 1992

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QUOTE

Here is a side question, does any one else have players who at times negotiate seperate payments? I.e. the "Mage" feels like he is worth more therefore if the group at large is offered 5k a piece he'd drive a 7.5K bargain.

No, because the shadow market is a buyer's market. As a general rule there are always more teams than jobs, so either the group can agree, or they can cause the johnson too much grief, the johnson fishes the job to the next team on the list and the team misses a potential payday.

QUOTE

Also does anyone offer incentives to take good as payment? In the past I have had players take up to 125% the value of the payment in negotiable goods. (Which has ranged from in one case weapons, to another in which they were paid in water.)

I do that, works well.

blakkie

Mar 23 2004, 09:51 PM

Post #33

Dragon

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QUOTE (BitBasher)

QUOTE

Here is a side question, does any one else have players who at times negotiate seperate payments? I.e. the "Mage" feels like he is worth more therefore if the group at large is offered 5k a piece he'd drive a 7.5K bargain.

No, because the shadow market is a buyer's market. As a general rule there are always more teams than jobs, so either the group can agree, or they can cause the johnson too much grief, the johnson fishes the job to the next team on the list and the team misses a potential payday.

Buyer's/seller's market is very clearly a GM's subjective decision. Even the concept of buyer's/seller's market is a term related to past market conditions.

Making waves doesn't bode well, since 'runners are selling Johnsons "convience". But assuming there is an unlimited supply of 'runners, or even that able 'runners outnumber potential jobs and are easily accessable, is certainly pushing it. It was my understanding that 'runners (as opposed to just some street banger) were relatively unknown phantoms, ergo you couldn't just phone up a number you saw in an ad on the local vid to find them?

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 09:57 PM Post #34
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Aren't there something like 200 of them in Seattle? Meaning that any given J has a certain amount of choice, but it's hardly an open market... ~J

Smiley View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 10:26 PM Post #35
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191	That definitely WOULD explain why you see all the same names popping up in the books. As far as buyer's and seller's market... Again, it depends on the job. A group might have every skill needed for a particular run and be seemingly tailor-made to handle it. In this case, a little negotiation might be warranted. If it's just a thug run, anybody could do that.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 10:29 PM Post #36
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Hell, you could just go to gangers for that and be done for the price of some assault rifles and maybe a BTL or three. ~J

Smiley View Member Profile	Mar 23 2004, 11:01 PM Post #37
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191	Precisely.

toturi View Member Profile	Mar 24 2004, 01:15 AM Post #38
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187	And have the said gangers would run right into the security detail and get torn up. I believe that there is only a very small pool of runners in any place. If I remember my Canon correctly at the very best 1 percent of any local population and I think that includes wannabes.

Modesitt

Mar 24 2004, 01:25 AM

Post #39

Moving Target

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QUOTE

Huh, why do They have the body??? First rule of SR: "Bodies ARE loot."

Let me tell you about last night...

The job itself went smoothly. We had to destroy a convoy of 3 or 4(I can't remember) vehicles. We buried explosives in the road and blew it up without a single casualty on our side.

However, when setting up, Something Invisible hit us. More specifically, my character. He heard a rattling in the bushes, then something hit him for a moderate wound that was invisible. Odd, I had to make two body rolls. Oh well, who cares. Phys Adept has the Astral Sight thingy, so she sighted the Invisible Thing and fired one 3-round burst from her SMG. It drops dead.

It looks sort of like a troll.

The decker/sammy thing says "Dude, let's throw this in the back of the citymaster, I bet we could get a bounty for this!" He drags it back to the citymaster while my char was patched up by the phys adept.

After the job, we drove back to outside Seattle to meet up with the guy we were renting the citymaster from(The run itself took place in elvish hellhole territory, so we had to hire a smuggler to get us and our equipment in). Along the way, the GM asks all of us to make 2 body tests.

When we meet up with him and his cronys, he closes the back of the citymaster and says he'll bill us for repairs. The decker presses him "Hey man, tell us what it is." "Oh, that's a bandersnatch. It's what happens when you infect a troll with HMHVV." "..." "It can infect you by bodily contact, wounds, anything."

Meditate on that. We had just spent several hours driving with the rotting corpse of a troll infected with HMHVV that was already predisposed to being pestilent in the back of the car.

We're planning to donate part of the proceeds from the job to HMHVV research.

We are never, ever going to try to take bodies and sell them again. Loot, MAYBE, but the bodies themselves will stay where they fucking fall.

Smiley

Mar 24 2004, 01:30 AM

Post #40

Running Target

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QUOTE (toturi)

If I remember my Canon correctly at the very best 1 percent of any local population and I think that includes wannabes.

EVERYONE is a wannabe at some point.

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