Barbed wire and its lethality, 5p you have to be kidding me Options

[Sephiroth]

Because death is cheap in Shadowrun, and corporate security designers don't give two figs about how lethal their systems are.

There's your reasonable answer.

[Omenowl]

Nope, bullets will have net hits. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's not lethal in the slightest, because everyone should have armor above 5. I'm not arguing in favor of the RAW, nor that it should be lethal, so don't ask me to defend it. It's not my problem.

Ooh, maybe it's 5P +4 AP. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

We can't make assumptions that everyone has armor especially when situations may have less than 5 impact.

Again base damage is the same. See suppressive fire vs. concertina wire. Damage increase is situational.

[Omenowl]

Because death is cheap in Shadowrun, and corporate security designers don't give two figs about how lethal their systems are.

There's your reasonable answer.

Hence monowire and electrified fences. You haven't given a reasonable answer about barbed or razor wire.

[Yerameyahu]

I think you'll find that suppressive fire is the *special* case. :O Besides, most heavy pistols don't have FA.

I dunno about 'we', but I can make all kinds of assumptions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The point is, worry about your 'tanglefoot' rule, instead of the purely theoretical faceless masses dying of vicious SR4 razorwire cuts.

[Sephiroth]

Hence monowire and electrified fences. You haven't given a reasonable answer about barbed or razor wire.

Yes I have. Corporate security designers do not give two figs for how lethal their security systems are. That applies just as much to barbed and razor wire as it does to mono- and electric wire. In any case, monowire and electrified fences are expensive compared to normal barbed/razor wire. Everyone knows that all the megas care about is their bottom line. If they can have the lowest costs by combining the more lethal measures with upgraded run-of-the-mill stuff (i.e. more dangerous barbed wire than we have), they'll do it.

[Yerameyahu]

That does make sense. No reason to assume that SR4 razor wire is the cattle-fencing stuff of RL.

[Omenowl]

That does make sense. No reason to assume that SR4 razor wire is the cattle-fencing stuff of RL.

Razor wire/concertina wire is the stuff the military uses not the cattle fencing you reference. Barbed wire has even less reason to be so damaging. Unless you drive into the wire it doesn't justify the damage.

[Yerameyahu]

So, you're saying that the razor wire of SR4 is *not* cattle fencing? Sounds like you agree with me, cuz that's exactly what I just said. You even quoted it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, as I said: in 2070, it's all more damaging. I think Sephiroth said it twice, as well. Simple, elegant, perfect answer.

[Whipstitch]

It's all dikoted. /thread

[Faraday]

It's all dikoted. /thread

We've put dikote on your dikote so you can dikote while you dikote.

[CanRay]

I never got to play with dikote... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

That's just good parenting. You'd shoot your eye out.

[CanRay]

No, I'd shoot someone else's eye out. And get paid for shooting them in the face.

[Faraday]

No, I'd shoot someone else's eye out. And get paid for shooting them in the face.

The only good face shooting is a paid face shooting...

[Yerameyahu]

No, see, child labor laws. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Omenowl]

So, you're saying that the razor wire of SR4 is *not* cattle fencing? Sounds like you agree with me, cuz that's exactly what I just said. You even quoted it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, as I said: in 2070, it's all more damaging. I think Sephiroth said it twice, as well. Simple, elegant, perfect answer.

I am trying to correct you for using the terms interchangeably.
Barbed wire is used for cattle.
Concertina Wire is razor wire, which is used by mostly by military and security applications.

[Fortinbras]

Have you seen Awakened cows?!?!
Barbed wire had better do that much damage or ol' Bessie is going to eat my barn!

[Jhaiisiin]

hell-bovine stampede!

[InfinityzeN]

Having extensive personal experience with razor wire, I would like to say that while extremely nasty it is far from lethal unless you do something extremely stupid and get extremely unlucky. I've actually fallen into a two-three-grabber before. That is two high, three wide, the staked out with twist and tension so that it tends to roll and twist if disturbed. Took nearly an hour to get me out and several hours with the medics getting all the wounds cleaned.

I actually didn't have a lot of cuts, just a heck of a lot of little punctures because I didn't thrash around after I was wrapped up. Most of the punctures actually happen while they were cutting me free, since every time you cut a strand while it is under tension, the whole mess twist and shifts.

I can tell you for a fact that the scars that form from cuts by it are very nasty if they get infected. Since it has a jerking twisting action and the blades work like plows if you struggle or it gets jerked hard, it will embed all kinds of nasty stuff to get infected in your body.

[CanRay]

I would like to say that while extremely nasty it is far from lethal unless you do something extremely stupid and get extremely unlucky.

Stupidity and Bad Luck are the only things in the Universe that rival Hydrogen for amount.

And Stupidity is in the lead as it comes around the bend, it appears!

[Jhaiisiin]

Stupidity should be far more painful and/or lethal than it is now, RL or otherwise.

[CanRay]

Stupidity should be far more painful and/or lethal than it is now, RL or otherwise.

Sometimes it is. Look at the Darwin Award Winners.

'Course, I've heard of at least one case where someone won a Darwin Award and survived.

[Fortinbras]

Back in the early 80's my dad used to write a column called "Too Stupid to Live" for a paper in Mt. Pleasant. It would regale the good people of east Texas with things like asking whether the 300+ deaths on railways in Texas were the fault of the guy who tried to outrun the train or his buddy who bet him a beer he couldn't. Far too many involved people cleaning things with gasoline, but there was always copy.
I grew up with tons of those stories. Flash forward fifteen years and suddenly people are all gaga for something they call The Darwin Awards, with tales less funny and a name less clever.
Johnny come latelys to the morbid humor game, I say.

For the record, it's the guy who bet him's fault.

[CanRay]

I remember a story that was going around about a Russian that burned himself to death when he tried to thaw out his car by putting a can of burning gasoline under it.

Everyone made fun of it until a veteran pointed out that it was a technique used to thaw out the engines in Russian Tanks quite successfully during WWII.

Sometimes a little bit of knowledge is more dangerous than anything else...

[CanRay]

And sometimes it causes double-posts.