How to make a stupidly powerful mage, Or: How I learned to stop worrying and love the Dragon Slave Options

[braincraft]

Having read through the 800 point challenge thread, I kinda want to try my hand at building a prime runner.

Any ideas on making an obscenely overpowered spellcaster? Is it even worth it to initiate up to Magic 12? (I'd guess Centering +6 would be pretty sweet.) Bonus points if you can give her personal flight, which I haven't been able to figure out.

[Fatum]

Bonus points if you can give her personal flight, which I haven't been able to figure out.

Uh, Quickened Levitate?

Also, isn't 9 the maximal Magic value possible?

[braincraft]

Uh, Quickened Levitate?

Also, isn't 9 the maximal Magic value possible?

According to SR4A pg 198, the maximum is 6 + (Initiate Grade).

[Thanee]

Also, isn't 9 the maximal Magic value possible?

Magic has a different limit than the other attributes, it doesn't use the BASE x1.5 maximum.

Getting Magic as high as possible is, obviously, a very good thing, as it does improve your dice pools across the board and also allows you to cast really high Force spells with just Stun drain.

Bye
Thanee

[Mardrax]

Also getting both drain attributes up as high as you can get them. Look into Pixie (flight covered too), or something with Cerebral Booster. Edge would help in this respect as well.
And don't forget the Increased Reflexes with focus.

[Glyph]

The game is driven by dice pools, so high initiation/Magic is the way to go. Don't forget high-Force foci, either. Not just a power focus, but sustaining foci for your buffs (quickened spells can be iffy, since they can't be turned off, although masking can ameliorate the worst effects of that).

Overall, an 800 point character should be overpowering in his specialty, but have his weaknesses shored up in other areas. Balancing the two can be a delicate act, even with 800 build points.

[Yerameyahu]

Step 1: Make a Mage. …There is no Step 2, this is Magicrun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[braincraft]

So basically: initiate repeatedly, pump magic, get lots of foci.

Is it worth it to hardcap drain attributes, or is softcap sufficient? Also, how good an idea is it to drop a point of magic on implants? Like, do Platelet Factories and Trauma Dampers work against drain?

What race and tradition is going to give me the most mileage per point?

[Doc Byte]

Even a 800 BP character can't start the game with an initiation grade as initiation's limited to Karmagen. If you want to do crazy things, try a Pixie summoner with a possession tradition. (The cabalistic tradition should be fine for a Pixie from France or England.)

[Glyph]

The 800 BP character thread lets people substitute Karma for BP for things such as initiation.

Pixie (with a Charisma-based tradition) would be the best metatype (min-maxing wise), since they get bonuses to Willpower and Charisma (plus, a high-Magic pixie is very hard to detect with their Concealment/self power).

Not sure I would go with a possession tradition, though. It's better to summon them and have them do things for you. Possession traditions are for more specialized builds that depend on buffing up the caster for combat, which would take too much focus away from raising your Magic through the roof.

[braincraft]

So it's looking like high drain pools + edge is practically broken. Roll a few dozen dice vs drain, reroll the failures, and you can reasonably overcast at twice magic with no drain until you run out of edge (which, at magic 12, means your powerballs basically turn into Thor shots).

I'm really feeling this blasty build. With a little work, a twinked mage could be one-shotting combat aircraft and two-shotting MBTs.

Though looking at things, I'm not sure how to keep from getting blown up by assault cannon fire in return. Do mages just have to turn invisible and hide between bombing runs?

[Yerameyahu]

It's not D&D, you can hide *during* the bombing runs. As a pixie, you can do it really well.

[Summerstorm]

Nosferatu - Better than even pixie.

Gets enhanced mental attributes too, but can use his essence drawing to buff up the magic. Also has higher Body so he can take more physical drain or insane stun drain more easily.

Get a deltaware Pain Editor or something. Fill the rest up stuff you want. Quicken and anchor overcast , strengthened enhance attribute spell on yourself to max yourself out completely. Try to get Spirit pacts (for example drain pact).

(Be a blood mage for horrible overpowered anti-drain metamagics *g*) - ok this is pretty much not really allowed. BUT there are the blood-fetishes from the digital grimoire... look into that.

Now you can easily cast Force 40 spells, YAY. *g*

[Mardrax]

Nosferatu is inhibitively expensive as well, while pixie actually gets you a net 50% discount on attributes you'd want anyway.

[ProfGast]

Not sure I would go with a possession tradition, though. It's better to summon them and have them do things for you. Possession traditions are for more specialized builds that depend on buffing up the caster for combat, which would take too much focus away from raising your Magic through the roof.

I was under the impression that you could create vessels for the possession spirits to inhabit as well and use those in lieu of the spirit materializing to break faces.

I mean the entire qabbalistic Hebrew tradition is probably a possession tradition based SOLELY on the idea of the Golem. (Shaped out of clay, imprinted with a holy symbol. brought to life from a holy word) So I don't see any reason why a Possession tradition can't have similar. Materialization spirits are probably less obvious and more mobile but nothing I've read makes possession spirits REQUIRED to buff casters and the like. It's also like the necromancer method isn't it?

[Fortinbras]

Pixies or Windlings in Earthdawn were always the bee's knees when it came to spell casters. Seems the consensus is that they don't do too shabby in Shadowrun either.

[Summerstorm]

Well, they have some totally illogical willpower and logic boosts. ALONG with higher charisma and intuition, while still being able to get body and strength like a normal human and moving at double their speed. That is what makes them weird (in my eyes). Just doesn't fit.

Well, back to tradition choices:
Overall in raw power possession spirits ARE better, because they allow for:

1. taking out an ENEMY, enhancing them AND turning them on their friends in one single action.
2. Having a massivley armoured damagesponge with some investment (Plasteel Homunculous is +8 body, i think)
3. take over your own body for massive statboosts.

But they really are not as fast and flexible as normal ones (flying around, switching between astral and physical on a whim, without any tests and such)

[Neraph]

Even a 800 BP character can't start the game with an initiation grade as initiation's limited to Karmagen. If you want to do crazy things, try a Pixie summoner with a possession tradition. (The cabalistic tradition should be fine for a Pixie from France or England.)

You think so small.

Step 1: Nosferatu.
Step 2: Ally Spirit.
Step 3: World domination.

This can be done with 400 BP and maybe 130 karma for the spirit. If Calling rules are used, 400 BP and 35 Karma will get you the same result.

EDIT: A Nosferatu with a F20 Levitate (10 net successes) with I think it was a F10 or F16 Movement flies at Mach 4.93. Have a good day.

[Bodak]

I was under the impression that you could create vessels for the possession spirits to inhabit as well and use those in lieu of the spirit materializing to break faces.

These homunculi must be (at least) 10 kg per spirit Force point. Whereas the materialisation mage can waltz into a run in just his suit, and suddenly his spirit materialises out of thin air and starts beating up the enemy, a possession mage has to drag 60kg of straw wicker man or plas-steel statue around with him. That might look suspicious. The spirit has to make a test in order to possess this vessel before it can affect the physical world, and if it fails, you either need to have been dragging around another heavy vessel as a backup, or you dismiss that spirit and summon a new one to try (more drain). If your homunculi are prepared vessels (and they should be) then you are giving the GM a free judas any time he wants. Any other mage's possession spirit (or a mage endowed with the possession power) can possess your prepared plas-steel statue at an inconvenient moment and stab your team in the back. At the end of the run, a materialised spirit can stay behind creating distraction, barring a door, etc. and be released when the runners are "safe". A possession mage can also do this - but only if he has a fat wallet and masses of free time to build and prepare new vessels all the time.

Generally materialisation traditions are for convenience and utility. Possession traditions are for specialist builds when you know what you're getting into and think the trade-off is worth it.

[ProfGast]

Stuff on possession

You sir have destroyed my mental image of a collector type possession mage who uses Gunpla and other action figurines as his vessels.

On a more serious note does the force limitations also apply to what they can possess? Can low force spirits possess higher kg stuff? And does that limit super high Force possession spirits from inhabiting say a 45 kg elf chick. (AFB right now)

[Sephiroth]

You think so small.

Step 1: Nosferatu.
Step 2: Ally Spirit.
Step 3: World domination.

This can be done with 400 BP and maybe 130 karma for the spirit. If Calling rules are used, 400 BP and 35 Karma will get you the same result.

EDIT: A Nosferatu with a F20 Levitate (10 net successes) with I think it was a F10 or F16 Movement flies at Mach 4.93. Have a good day.

Perhaps you should post the final stats of your nosferatu lich, as I am not sure the OP would truly be able to understand the aptness of that third step otherwise.

[Bodak]

My main point was that although some people think possession is superior and overpowered in all regards compared with materialisation, it does have its mitigating limitations. 60kg of straw effigy is going to occupy a lot of space and will be quite vulnerable being carted around unpossessed. Fitting rollerskates to all heavy homunculi feet will help you drag them through wards while the spirit is doing its metaplanar shortcut trick. Just hope it makes the re-possession test.

On a more serious note does the force limitations also apply to what they can possess? Can low force spirits possess higher kg stuff? And does that limit super high Force possession spirits from inhabiting say a 45 kg elf chick. (AFB right now)

If the elf chick is alive, then she isn't a homunculus and so can be possessed, becoming a new non-metahuman dual-natured entity, driven by the spirit unless she is an initiate with Channeling. Her mass doesn't limit the force of the spirit.

If she is dead, her body can be used as a homunculus and so she can be possessed only by F4 and lower spirits. Higher force spirits would be unable to possess the body as it lacks sufficient mass. A Watcher is unlikely to manage that unless the body has been prepared as a vessel (which delays its degeneration) to give it extra dice.

So if she is alive, 45kg, and possessed by a F5 spirit, and is then killed by 5kg of lead being suddenly implanted in her body, does the spirit stay or go?

[hyzmarca]

My main point was that although some people think possession is superior and overpowered in all regards compared with materialisation, it does have its mitigating limitations. 60kg of straw effigy is going to occupy a lot of space and will be quite vulnerable being carted around unpossessed. Fitting rollerskates to all heavy homunculi feet will help you drag them through wards while the spirit is doing its metaplanar shortcut trick. Just hope it makes the re-possession test.

Shattershield

If you're dragging around a giant homoculous then you don't give a damn about stealth, so you might as well just take the ward down. Shattershield is very effective, unless you're breaking into Cheteau D'if, in which case you're screwed six ways to Sunday no matter what you do and might as well just gve up before things get out of hand.

[Cheops]

Lots of spells is a key. Many of them can compensate for areas in which you are weak (Analyze Device) and one can easily grant you flight (Shapechange). Ice Sheet ensures that you always win all car chases without modding your vehicle. Illusion spells get around your lack of Infiltration. Levitate and Shapechange overcome your lack of athletics. The various mind reading spells can give you the boost in Face work. Fashion lets you get around the pesky lack of clothes after a Shapechange.

Spells = On-Demand Versatility.

[Mardrax]

Fashion lets you get around the pesky lack of clothes after a Shapechange.

No it doesn't. You need to input clothes for it. Invisibility does though.