 Question on Riggers, starting rigger for the inexperienced |
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  Aug 23 2003, 03:07 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 75  |
I think I've asked this question before, but I've been wanting to start up a rigger character who can cover all the bases - driving, drones, CCSS - without going completely overboard with the cyber and equipment lists. For example, I came up with a RCD that ended up looking like this:
Remote Control Deck-5 Remote Control ECCM-5 Remote Control Encryption Module-5 Rigger Decryption Module-5 Rigger Protocol Emulation Module-4 A/V Display Intercom Speaker Signal Amplifier-6 Storage Memory: 500Mp which seems a bit extraneous for me, but then again, exactly how much storage memory am I gonna need to run drones anyway? Also, with the BattleTac and Autosoft programs, say I buy the programs: do I have to buy the program for every single drone that I want to implement these things or could I just make second-hand copies from the originals (as mentioned in the BBB)? Anyway, let's go on. In R2, there was a blurb about riggers with encephalons not needing skillwires if they wanting to use Vehicle skillsofts to drive vehicles because of the way the cyber interacted with the VCR. I can find no mention of this rule in R3, so I was wondering if it could be grandfathered or if the rule was completely overwritten in favor of something else (and if so, where). But while we're on cyber, the rigger I've got planned out has: Cranial Remote Control Deck-2 Cybereyes [flare compensation, image link, low-light] Dampener Datajack [knowsoft link] Datajack [rigger jack] Encephalon-1 Math SPU-2 Smartlink-2 (a) Vehicle Control Rig-2 (a) And I'm still not sure about the Math SPU, cybereyes or dampener. Now onto vehicles and drones because I know I asked this before. I wanted to hook this girl with either the Westwind 2000T or a Nightsky and was wondering what you guys liked to customize these bad boys up with. Also, in addition to the Condor, I was wondering what drones you guys liked starting off with since I can only think of them in terms of recon and combat. So far, I'm thinking two Condors, maybe a MCT Rotodrone or two, Wajinda, and a Steel Lynx. For the Lynx, I'm thinking: Steel Lynx Drone [3 CF: improved suspension-1, recoil adjuster-6, sensor-2] Ingram Valiant LMG [smartlink-2, converted] 300 rounds belted regular ammunition (And I've lost the plans I had for the other drones, though I'm thinking of leaving the recon drones stock.) Suggestions? I mean, I doubt I'd ever use the SL for anything but all-drek situations, but when I do, I want something that can kick ass right out of the box so I can not worry about it for a while while I concentrate on the really cool stuff. Or am I asking the wrong questions...? |
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Aug 23 2003, 03:17 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
Well, I'm really no expert on riggers, but as far as the cyberwre... maybe you'd want a VCR in there? :D I assume you just forgot to write that in, or left it out cos every rigger has one. I know people say VCR2 is the most effcient by far, and it's maybe true, but if I was making a serious rigger (which I've never done) I'd definately get VCR3.
Otherwise... Encephalon 2 would be good (drop the SPU math if necesary), and a Cerebral Booster 2 while you're at it. Max out that Task Pool and intelligence. |
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Aug 23 2003, 03:29 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 75 |
VCR's already in there. Not going for cultured bioware.
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Aug 23 2003, 04:32 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
Your RCD's rating may be a double-edged sword of sorts, but I believe it to be best to have it be as high as possible because of how dangerous MIJI attacks are. Unless, of course, your GM doesn't have a clue how MIJI works, in which case go as low as you can. Storage memory - Well, that depends on whether you use pre-programmed commands. If you do, you'll want at least 2K of memory. If you don't, what you have will do.
I would treat your deck, for this purpose only, as if it were a skillsoft jukebox. It takes a simple action to load the chip into memory, then a free action to activate or deactive it for each drone and yes each drone needs an autosoft interpreter installed. To run the autosoft from your deck, you need as much memory as the program takes up. Multiple autosofts memory costs stack, etc. You can have as many plugged in as you decide to plug into electronics ports, but the usual rules for how many can actually affect a drone still apply(Drones can't handle an autosoft of greater rating than their pilot, total of all autosofts affecting the drone can't add up to more than twice its pilot). However, you can directly put autosofts into drones also. For simplicity, I'd probably just assume the skillsoft interpreter hardware installed in drones can have an infinite number of autosofts. I'd prefer that it like a multi-slot chipjack and comes standard with 4 electronics ports that can only be used for autosofts, but there's no stated limit in the rules on how many can be installed, only in use at once. I've no clue how much of that would be house rules and how much would be cannon. It looks pretty good on paper though, I might have borrowed a little too heavily from the activesoft rules though.
Nope. Nothing like that at all. In fact, skillwires are explicitly stated in R3(pg 27) to be incompatible with VCRs. You can have them both, but they don't work simultaneously with each other. You can still drive a car by datajack or manually and use activesofts though.
I never played SR2 or used R2, but I've heard that back then, Riggers HAD to have two datajacks. Unless you plan to rig and use a knowsoft at the exact same time, you don't need them two of them. Beyond that, it all looks good here.
Steel Lynx Drone can take 2 more armor from the base of 9 without further penalties. Reason is that handling penalties only happen on multiples of 6. You don't need more than rating 5 recoil adjusters unless you plan to mount a high-velocity weapon or a minigun on it in the future because turrets cut in half all recoil before other modifiers are applied. And I'd go on, but I've got to get some sleep. I'll go into more detail once I get a chance to make a post. |
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Aug 23 2003, 05:03 PM
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#5
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Personally, I'd go CyberLimb if making a Rigger. You can fill it up with all the Rigger cyber you need and since you already need a Datajack, most of it doesn't even require any adjustments (datajack acts as a router). So for 3.4 Essence you can get a Alpha-VCR2, and a Cyberlimb with all the addendums you want (including a datajack). Cyberlegs hold the most but are often difficult to visualize for a char. :P Our Decker/Rigger has a Cyberleg with everything isntalled in the leg INCLUDING a Signal Booster and a MPCP-8 CyberDeck. It's just about the most expensive leg in the world I think. :P
Sphynx |
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Aug 23 2003, 05:08 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
A few thoughts. First, there's probably no reason to spend the cash on the cranial RC deck at 2. It's going to have a flux of 0 in any case, and if you need it, it's unlikely you're going to need more than one drone in any case. The eyes, second datajack, Math SPU, Entire Smartlink package, and dampner aren't overly useful to the Rigger directly. You might find other IC uses for them, though.
Deck storage memory is also necessary for recording video from your surveillance drones. Which is something important you might otherwise forget about. The best recon drone possible is a mini-blimp with boosted sensors and a suncell system. Get a hacker buddy to register it as a weather balloon and slap a point of armor on it (to keep morons from bringing it down for sport with small arms fire, I assume it's fairly common). I much prefer that method to the condor since it's more discreet (average signature of 10). The steel lynx is so obviously milspec it's not even funny. My rigger's standard MO is to have it in the back of the van as a panic button only. He'll send in a doberman or other, cheaper drone (usually bought used to save on cash) for close fire support and keep the lynx as the big gun. If there's anything out there than can defeat an armor 5 drone, it'll probably vanquish the lynx without much more trouble. |
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Aug 23 2003, 05:21 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 348 Joined: 20-June 03 Member No.: 4,782 |
He must walk with a limp. Must be funny to watch a character run with a cyberleg of quickness 4 while the meat has a quickness 6. |
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Aug 23 2003, 05:53 PM
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#8
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Or just maybe, he bought the Quickness up to 6 (or has a meat quickness of 4) :P
Sphynx |
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Aug 23 2003, 10:43 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 697 |
I would suggest you take the cranial RCD because you will never lose it and if you outfit it with all the gear needed for electronic warfare you practically don't need to buy drones in the beginning (just go steal some during the first run).BUy a signal amplifier and you are set. Loose the cybereyes, cyberears, math SPU and install a second datajack if you want to go to decking latter. Max out the memory not only for surveillance but for command sets too (read carefully this part of rigger 2 or 3, the rules are the same, because it will be of great help.) If you want drones go mainly for aerials, because they will cover more ground, move faster and stay out of most weapon's reach. Blimps for surveillance and bombing, rotor drones for cover fire and anthroforms for ground and installation combat as well as infiltration with the help of some illusion spells (a decent medium battle anthroform costs around 70.000 and can operate any weapon.). The mnemonic enhancer 3, cerebral boosster 2 and encefalon 2 are also a must, for obvious reason.
hoped I helped |
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Aug 25 2003, 09:14 PM
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#10
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,763 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Special Hell Member No.: 284 |
RCDs are a great tool because you're never without it, just remember the flux limitations. You can overcome this with a separate power amp or by utilizing the CRD-server rules in R3 (p. 85). With the server setup, though, the limitations on the network are in the CRD, so it would behoove you to purchase a higher rating than 2.
Storage memory is useful not only for pre-programmed drone commands but also for storing surveillance data collected by your drones. Both the Steel Lynx and the Wandjina are military drones and won't be mistaken for anything else. They're an invitation for law enforcement to break out the big guns on you. Surveillance assets are, as mentioned previously, either one of the Condor series drones. Also useful are the Wolfhound and the TADS Firebird. If your GM is letting you get ahold of Battletac systems then I highly recommend investing in some information or laser-guided indirect fire weapons. If you equip your teammates with battletac gear and/or laser designators you can keep your gun-toting vehicles remote from the battlefield and still provide pin-point accurate heavy support firepower. Sorry for the late reply. |
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Aug 25 2003, 10:16 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 75 |
No problem, gren. As I said before, I want to make the Lynx and Wandjina the panic button drones, so yeah, I'd like to get them fully beefed up so I can concentrate on the surveillance and inflitration drones. Maybe one Lynx, a pair of Wandis for when the shit hits the fan: anyone have any suggestions for a nasty-as-hell combat drone that won't need too much upgrading? But so far, I'm strongly considering the Condor series, the Doberman series, and the roto-drones.
OK, so for cyber, VCR, a cyberlimb (an arm, I guess) with the goodies (and someone tell me if I'm gonna need a router for all this crap), and a high-rated cranial...I take it I can pack the electronic goodies in a backpack and connect them to my cranial or should I simply list my cranial as a subscriber on a more powerful remote-control deck? Someone explain to me why a smartlink wouldn't be a good idea? I thought I needed it for gunnery. Hm...had a plan for a customized Westwind 2000, but forgot the plans at home. I'll post those later. |
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 Aug 26 2003, 12:13 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 75 |
Yeah, but in R2, the rules stated that the rigger only needed the encephalon and a VCR for the driving activesofts (I hate how they reclassified these things sometimes) in order to use these things while rigging, skillwires didn't enter the equation. |
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Aug 26 2003, 01:57 AM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
As far as I know, in SR3 you cannot Rig with chipped skills at all. I may be wrong though, as Rigging is not my strong suit.
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Aug 26 2003, 04:41 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
OK, why install the second datajack? Seems like having one is perfectly good for both rigging and decking -- after all, you'll not be doing both at the same time. |
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Aug 27 2003, 04:50 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Because somewhere in canon it details the fact that a datajack for Rigging is not connected to the same part of the brain as one usually used for Decking. Hence there is a TN penalty when performing the opposite 'job'. A second datajack would remove this penalty. |
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Aug 27 2003, 04:58 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
I'm pretty sure that's in Matrix.
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Aug 27 2003, 08:46 PM
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#17
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
There's no TN penalty for not having a "decker" jack and rigging or using a "rigger" jack for decking. It seems there was in previous editions, but it's no longer true. There ARE some penalties for a rigger decking, but they are related to his VCR wirings and you can get around them by having a reflex trigger installed with the VCR. If anyone can cite a page where that's proven wrong, I'd love to hear it (since I've scoured the books for it and can't find it). It does mention that they are usually located in seperate places, but there are no penalties.
As far as a smartlink goes, you definitely want one, but if you're short on essence, you might consider not getting the whole package. Near teh start of Rigger 3, it talks about the parts of the rigging interface which substitute for parts of the SL system. I think it comes down to you just needing the smartlink processor (and maybe one other part). Of course, that's only useful when you're in the machine. Outside of that, you probably want the whole package (but if essence is a consideration, etc., see above). [edit]Page reference, Matrix p.28.[/edit] |
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 Aug 30 2003, 08:39 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 75 |
Interestingly enough, the rule is in R2, but the options are screwy enough to wonder what the hell Szeto was thinking when he made up the option of a 13,000 nuyen VCR-trigger with a 0.2 essence cost against a 2,000 nuyen datajack with a 0.2 Essence cost. Getting a second datajack is more logical, nuyen and essence-wise, than getting a VCR-trigger.
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Aug 30 2003, 09:02 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 17-June 03 From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas Member No.: 4,754 |
Re: Smartlink:
Since you need to be either touching/holding the gun in question, or physically jacked into the vehicle, to use the smartlink fucntion, its only of use to a vehilce rigger (like a guy driving a tank). Because if youre in a vehicle (aka car) youre probably making a fast getaway shooting with a smartlink isnt applicable (not that you have a gun mounted on the westwind anyhow ...). Because its impossible to touch/hold or jack into a drone (unless you like having a doberman on a fiberoptic leash) you cannot make use of a smartlink over a drone network. The sensory-enchanced gunnery is simply a test using the vehicles senseors, rather than your eyes and hands, to fire the onboard weaponry. It doesnt require a smartlink to implement. Hope that clears things up. (of note, riggers that plan to go into the facility on a run, with a drone or two nearby and a shotgun in hand, make good use of crds and smartlinks. riggers that sit back in the getaway car and send in minions, errr drones, form offsite tend to not use either of those pieces of ware. it also helps save on cash because all that stuff is darn expensive) |
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Aug 31 2003, 01:48 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 75 |
Sorry, ya know, I just had a brain fart. That was the rigger under SR2 rules. As soon as I find the SR3 remake, I'll repost. :twirl:
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Aug 31 2003, 03:14 AM
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#21
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Or your average rigger-customized van. I seem to recall deciding that the rules indicated you could use them with a drone you were directly controlling, but I can't find my copy of Rigger 3 (I just moved) to back that up or discount it. I'm probably wrong, but I can't shake the feeling that there's something to it. |
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Aug 31 2003, 02:40 PM
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#22
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
After reviewing R3, I can't see where you would be unable to use a smartlink in a remote vehicle. It doesn't explicitely allow it, but it doesn't disallow it, either. In either case, you can't use the SL while you're using Sensor Enhanced Gunnery (manual gunnery only).
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Aug 31 2003, 06:22 PM
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#23
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Gyah! Do not bother with these. IIRC the flux on them is crap so you have to shell out for a booster straight away and the massive cost. I'd suggest taking a cyberarm or leg and putting a normal remote control deck into it.
I think there was something mentioned in R3 about this that was a bit on the vague side. Our group basically said it was still doable but the GM jacked the price up an extra five grand or so for an extra bit on it for it to work. :) |
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Sep 1 2003, 07:40 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 75 |
Why? I mean, that's so silly, Flak! Consider that out of a team, all of the characters are expected in one way or another to divide skills and functions among themselves, but who gets stuck with the primary usage of all the vehicle skills?
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Sep 1 2003, 07:56 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 224 Joined: 6-April 02 From: ab.ca Member No.: 2,522 |
I've done this with one character who was a rigger/decker. The primary reason is purely fluff. Deckers have their datajacks set in the forehead, riggers have theirs at the base of the skull so it ties directly into the relevant area. There is no incentive rules-wise in SR3 for this, but I figured I'd go full hog and jump into the SR world. A datajack is cheap enough anyways. The second reason is that this character would often land on the target installation, run a cable from the chopper to the first jackpoint he could make and then run overwatch from the pilot seat of the chopper. Kept plugged into both to make sure their escape route was safe. |
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