Spirits & The Matrix..., ...is this possible? |
Spirits & The Matrix..., ...is this possible? |
Mar 11 2011, 12:49 PM
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#1
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Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,258 Joined: 9-March 10 From: The Citadel Member No.: 18,267 |
I'm not concerned with RAW as much as what people think should be possible within the SR universe...
Could a possession spirit take over a human body and experience the matrix through their 'eyes'? I know technically they don't get to access the skills of the host but presumably they could learn how to manipulate computer tech for themselves...what about TM abilities, would they be able to use those? I'm asking for background reasons and I might just make my own mind up to suit my game but I wanted to see if this breaks every SR law or if it might be possible?!? Thanks A |
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Mar 11 2011, 01:45 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 252 Joined: 26-August 10 From: Greensboro, NC Member No.: 18,971 |
I would nix the TM stuff, that's too much, but yeah, I could dig a spirit liking his Matrix pr0n. I think it would make a great story, or at least for a weird as hell NPC.
As far as RAW is concerned... I got no real clue. I mean, sure, it shouldn't be, probably. I think as long as you aren't getting crazy and having the Spirit either possess a TM and accessing their abilties, or suddenly getting said abilities themselves, it's going to be fun. If the spirit gets too out of hand, a bunch of sprites can boot it off their tirf. |
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Mar 11 2011, 01:49 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 25-August 10 Member No.: 18,969 |
I may be wrong, but IIRC spirits can't read as we understand it, they perceive the emotional content and meanings behind things. Generally spirits are supposed to be tech dumb, in the same way that sprites are magic dumb.
You cannot have both magic and resonance. |
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Mar 11 2011, 01:59 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589 |
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Mar 11 2011, 02:01 PM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,899 Joined: 29-October 09 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Member No.: 17,814 |
Well, if a spirit can see through a metahuman's eyes through possession, then he should be able to see the screen. Likewise use the hands to manipulate AR gloves.
DNI is a bit hairy.. I'd say that ordinary DNI can't communicate with the altered brain function of a possessed person. Maybe a custom DNI might, but that'd be a major manatech breakthrough. Then there's the issue of understanding - spirits have no background in this, they'd have to start out by learning about the concept of written language I suppose. They'd have a lot of trouble comprehending a normal GUI, let alone some command line system. Of course, a system designer familiar with spirit "thought processes" might work around that with clever and (to humans) very weird interface design. Maybe something that uses lots of DNI-induced emotional impulses to communicate, instead of the visual communication that humans are used to. |
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Mar 11 2011, 03:49 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 252 Joined: 26-August 10 From: Greensboro, NC Member No.: 18,971 |
Going with the emotional reading bit, couldn't you do something similar to the biodrone interfaces, or even simsense impulse recording? Establish a new language, almost, of programmed emotional responses. "You Got Mail!" because a bit of excitement tinged with irritation as it is isually just a bit of spam, for example.
And what if you flipped it, with a sprite becoming fascinated with the magical world? Reading all these accounts, but never being able to actually see it. Although, now that I've thought of that i think I'm heading towards some sort of antagonists like Smith from Reloaded, DLing himself into some runner so they can "see" the real world. And then destroy it. |
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Mar 11 2011, 04:05 PM
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#7
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,996 Joined: 1-June 10 Member No.: 18,649 |
At most a Spirit possessing would have access to AR. That Being said, a Sprite is effectively a Machine Spirit. And I would not feel weird about allowing a Greater Sprite to possess a Technomancer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Mar 11 2011, 04:16 PM
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#8
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 9,669 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
Possession seems to be limited in how far it can go to meld the abilities of spirit and vessel, but Inhabitation may allow for the kind of access you propose. Of course, Inhabitation wipes out the host as a separate entity.
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Mar 11 2011, 04:27 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,083 Joined: 13-December 10 From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Member No.: 19,228 |
Spirits can learn to read no problem. See Buttercup reading manga.
Also, most matrix UI functionality is completely alingual anyway. Icons mean a lot more than text does. Just find yourself a Japanese version of Windows and see how hampered in your usual activities you are. With literacy rates decreasing, this is a necessary adaption of the system, plus a cause for the decrease. A possession spirit should be able to perceive simsense no problem as it interacts with normal sensory portions of the brain, the output of which the spirit uses to perceive as well. Cryptosense might be out.Actually being able to give commands through DNI kinda depends. Most likely, portions of DNI interact with the motor cortex and cerebellum (blocking the neural activity from activating motor units, but using the activity for DNI commands like "walk forward", "grab this", "look there", "push this") and as such would be completely responsive to the spirit puppeteering the same actions. Control of these functions would be awkward, but that's where spending karma on Computer skill comes in. Other commands relying on intricate thought patterns might be inaccessible due to an alien functioning of the spirit's thought processes, or probably the lack of its manifestation in the vessel's brain. |
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Mar 11 2011, 04:55 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 558 Joined: 23-June 10 Member No.: 18,749 |
It's questionable with mere possession. With a flesh-form inhabitation merge it is most definitely possible. The spirit even gets the skills of the body its inhabitting. That said, a technomancer would lose his Resonance immediately upon having a Magic or a Force stat, which an inhabitation spirit would give him.
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Mar 11 2011, 07:07 PM
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#11
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Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,258 Joined: 9-March 10 From: The Citadel Member No.: 18,267 |
Thanks guys...has given me some evil ideas to play around with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)
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Mar 11 2011, 08:05 PM
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#12
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
Weren't Dragons able to experience Simsense and BTLs by mentally possessing people, and found them to be dull and boring as they only used "Five Senses"?
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Mar 11 2011, 09:58 PM
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#13
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Could a possession spirit take over a human body and experience the matrix through their 'eyes'? I know technically they don't get to access the skills of the host but presumably they could learn how to manipulate computer tech for themselves...what about TM abilities, would they be able to use those? See Street Magic p. 102 sidebar. Possessing spirits cannot perceive or interact with AR/VR DNI. Also in general there are many references to the fact that Resonance and Magic special attributes are mutually exclusive. Since inhabited and possessed vessels retain the spirits special attributes, Magic for one, a Possessed TM does not have a resonance rating. That's the rules. You are free to do what you want in your game of course. There's always room for fun stuff to be made for any game. |
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Mar 12 2011, 09:28 AM
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#14
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,248 Joined: 14-October 10 Member No.: 19,113 |
Supporting the early comment. Its really clear that possession spirits cannot do this. Street Magic p102
QUOTE Possessing spirits cannot perceive or operate AR or direct neural or cybernetic interfaces, and do not benefit from implants, cyberware, or nanoware that would require active control (i.e.: a spirit can benefit from a vessel’s bone lacing or eye replacement, but cannot activate vision enhancements or a datajack). As was also pointed out, in your own game you can do anything. I think this rule is very good one when players have access to (or are) spirits, but GMs can do what they want in the support of a good story |
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Mar 12 2011, 12:34 PM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,899 Joined: 29-October 09 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Member No.: 17,814 |
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Mar 12 2011, 01:57 PM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,258 Joined: 9-March 10 From: The Citadel Member No.: 18,267 |
Supporting the early comment. Its really clear that possession spirits cannot do this. Street Magic p102 As was also pointed out, in your own game you can do anything. I think this rule is very good one when players have access to (or are) spirits, but GMs can do what they want in the support of a good story Amen to that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Mar 12 2011, 03:51 PM
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#17
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
I remember reading about a Free Spirit that tried to act like a Metahuman, and actually bought BTLs, would chip them, and act as if he were actually getting high. His Dealer gave him some National Geographic (Or other such) chips with BTL labels, same effect.
Honestly, Metahumanity will never understand Spirits, the ways of thinking are just too massively different. |
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Mar 13 2011, 03:50 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 252 Joined: 26-August 10 From: Greensboro, NC Member No.: 18,971 |
Had a thought, along some of what has been mentioned, particularly with spirits sensing/seeing emotional responses in others. Would there be a way for the spirit to pick up on the emotional response of an AI? I mean, as a sentient being an AI it would be capable of emotion. Compuet screen with the AI in it, or something?
Just an odd thought. |
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Mar 13 2011, 03:53 AM
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#19
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
Can AIs feel emotions? Digital Ghosts, maybe, if they're real Ghosts, but AIs?
... Then again, the second AI we know about found love... |
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Mar 13 2011, 10:14 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 16,303 |
AI and possessing technomancers? By the rules, no, as the AI can't invade the organic node. Though there's room for fiddling should the technomancer allow it. And emotions? Oh yeah, they have them. Even the ones that claim they're creatures of pure logic. Heck, especially those ones.
I don't get how spirits can't see AR, though. DNI I get, and would probably forbid it even for best quality hybrids. |
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Mar 14 2011, 12:12 AM
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#21
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
They probably see the world through astral vision more than regular vision. What's the emotional content of an AR Display? Not and much.
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Mar 14 2011, 03:29 AM
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#22
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Didn't Dunky experiment with dragon-sized video goggles and early versions of trodes?
I do remember at least three dragons having matrix conversations at one point. Presumably using old-school Turtle decks while in human form. -k |
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Mar 14 2011, 03:30 AM
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#23
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
And there is one dragon with a Datajack.
Sorry, was one... |
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Mar 17 2011, 06:27 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
No, his body still has the data jack. And his Eghost is still out there.....
Also, Possesing spritis can not realy use the matrix in any meaningfull way, although an inhabiting one can with no real problems. |
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Mar 17 2011, 07:22 PM
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#25
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
Hey, Halabis, SPOILERS!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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