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Aria
I'm not concerned with RAW as much as what people think should be possible within the SR universe...

Could a possession spirit take over a human body and experience the matrix through their 'eyes'? I know technically they don't get to access the skills of the host but presumably they could learn how to manipulate computer tech for themselves...what about TM abilities, would they be able to use those?

I'm asking for background reasons and I might just make my own mind up to suit my game but I wanted to see if this breaks every SR law or if it might be possible?!?

Thanks

A
jaellot
I would nix the TM stuff, that's too much, but yeah, I could dig a spirit liking his Matrix pr0n. I think it would make a great story, or at least for a weird as hell NPC.

As far as RAW is concerned... I got no real clue. I mean, sure, it shouldn't be, probably. I think as long as you aren't getting crazy and having the Spirit either possess a TM and accessing their abilties, or suddenly getting said abilities themselves, it's going to be fun. If the spirit gets too out of hand, a bunch of sprites can boot it off their tirf.
squee_nabob
I may be wrong, but IIRC spirits can't read as we understand it, they perceive the emotional content and meanings behind things. Generally spirits are supposed to be tech dumb, in the same way that sprites are magic dumb.

You cannot have both magic and resonance.
Fortinbras
QUOTE (jaellot @ Mar 11 2011, 09:45 AM) *
I would nix the TM stuff, that's too much, but yeah, I could dig a spirit liking his Matrix pr0n. I think it would make a great story, or at least for a weird as hell NPC.

It's called The Lucifer Deck. Whether it's a great story is a matter of opinion.
Ascalaphus
Well, if a spirit can see through a metahuman's eyes through possession, then he should be able to see the screen. Likewise use the hands to manipulate AR gloves.

DNI is a bit hairy.. I'd say that ordinary DNI can't communicate with the altered brain function of a possessed person. Maybe a custom DNI might, but that'd be a major manatech breakthrough.

Then there's the issue of understanding - spirits have no background in this, they'd have to start out by learning about the concept of written language I suppose. They'd have a lot of trouble comprehending a normal GUI, let alone some command line system.

Of course, a system designer familiar with spirit "thought processes" might work around that with clever and (to humans) very weird interface design. Maybe something that uses lots of DNI-induced emotional impulses to communicate, instead of the visual communication that humans are used to.
jaellot
Going with the emotional reading bit, couldn't you do something similar to the biodrone interfaces, or even simsense impulse recording? Establish a new language, almost, of programmed emotional responses. "You Got Mail!" because a bit of excitement tinged with irritation as it is isually just a bit of spam, for example.

And what if you flipped it, with a sprite becoming fascinated with the magical world? Reading all these accounts, but never being able to actually see it.

Although, now that I've thought of that i think I'm heading towards some sort of antagonists like Smith from Reloaded, DLing himself into some runner so they can "see" the real world. And then destroy it.
sabs
At most a Spirit possessing would have access to AR. That Being said, a Sprite is effectively a Machine Spirit. And I would not feel weird about allowing a Greater Sprite to possess a Technomancer wink.gif
pbangarth
Possession seems to be limited in how far it can go to meld the abilities of spirit and vessel, but Inhabitation may allow for the kind of access you propose. Of course, Inhabitation wipes out the host as a separate entity.
Mardrax
Spirits can learn to read no problem. See Buttercup reading manga.
Also, most matrix UI functionality is completely alingual anyway. Icons mean a lot more than text does. Just find yourself a Japanese version of Windows and see how hampered in your usual activities you are. With literacy rates decreasing, this is a necessary adaption of the system, plus a cause for the decrease.

A possession spirit should be able to perceive simsense no problem as it interacts with normal sensory portions of the brain, the output of which the spirit uses to perceive as well. Cryptosense might be out.Actually being able to give commands through DNI kinda depends. Most likely, portions of DNI interact with the motor cortex and cerebellum (blocking the neural activity from activating motor units, but using the activity for DNI commands like "walk forward", "grab this", "look there", "push this") and as such would be completely responsive to the spirit puppeteering the same actions.
Control of these functions would be awkward, but that's where spending karma on Computer skill comes in.
Other commands relying on intricate thought patterns might be inaccessible due to an alien functioning of the spirit's thought processes, or probably the lack of its manifestation in the vessel's brain.
Laodicea
It's questionable with mere possession. With a flesh-form inhabitation merge it is most definitely possible. The spirit even gets the skills of the body its inhabitting. That said, a technomancer would lose his Resonance immediately upon having a Magic or a Force stat, which an inhabitation spirit would give him.
Aria
Thanks guys...has given me some evil ideas to play around with ork.gif
CanRay
Weren't Dragons able to experience Simsense and BTLs by mentally possessing people, and found them to be dull and boring as they only used "Five Senses"?
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Aria @ Mar 11 2011, 06:49 AM) *
Could a possession spirit take over a human body and experience the matrix through their 'eyes'? I know technically they don't get to access the skills of the host but presumably they could learn how to manipulate computer tech for themselves...what about TM abilities, would they be able to use those?


See Street Magic p. 102 sidebar. Possessing spirits cannot perceive or interact with AR/VR DNI.

Also in general there are many references to the fact that Resonance and Magic special attributes are mutually exclusive. Since inhabited and possessed vessels retain the spirits special attributes, Magic for one, a Possessed TM does not have a resonance rating.

That's the rules. You are free to do what you want in your game of course. There's always room for fun stuff to be made for any game.
Seth
Supporting the early comment. Its really clear that possession spirits cannot do this. Street Magic p102
QUOTE
Possessing spirits cannot perceive or operate
AR or direct neural or cybernetic interfaces,
and do not benefit from implants, cyberware,
or nanoware that would require active control
(i.e.: a spirit can benefit from a vesselís bone
lacing or eye replacement, but cannot activate
vision enhancements or a datajack).


As was also pointed out, in your own game you can do anything. I think this rule is very good one when players have access to (or are) spirits, but GMs can do what they want in the support of a good story
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (jaellot @ Mar 11 2011, 04:49 PM) *
Although, now that I've thought of that i think I'm heading towards some sort of antagonists like Smith from Reloaded, DLing himself into some runner so they can "see" the real world. And then destroy it.


Hmm, intriguing..
Aria
QUOTE (Seth @ Mar 12 2011, 10:28 AM) *
Supporting the early comment. Its really clear that possession spirits cannot do this. Street Magic p102

As was also pointed out, in your own game you can do anything. I think this rule is very good one when players have access to (or are) spirits, but GMs can do what they want in the support of a good story


Amen to that smile.gif
CanRay
I remember reading about a Free Spirit that tried to act like a Metahuman, and actually bought BTLs, would chip them, and act as if he were actually getting high. His Dealer gave him some National Geographic (Or other such) chips with BTL labels, same effect.

Honestly, Metahumanity will never understand Spirits, the ways of thinking are just too massively different.
jaellot
Had a thought, along some of what has been mentioned, particularly with spirits sensing/seeing emotional responses in others. Would there be a way for the spirit to pick up on the emotional response of an AI? I mean, as a sentient being an AI it would be capable of emotion. Compuet screen with the AI in it, or something?

Just an odd thought.
CanRay
Can AIs feel emotions? Digital Ghosts, maybe, if they're real Ghosts, but AIs?

...

Then again, the second AI we know about found love...
Mr Clock
AI and possessing technomancers? By the rules, no, as the AI can't invade the organic node. Though there's room for fiddling should the technomancer allow it. And emotions? Oh yeah, they have them. Even the ones that claim they're creatures of pure logic. Heck, especially those ones.

I don't get how spirits can't see AR, though. DNI I get, and would probably forbid it even for best quality hybrids.
CanRay
They probably see the world through astral vision more than regular vision. What's the emotional content of an AR Display? Not and much.
KarmaInferno
Didn't Dunky experiment with dragon-sized video goggles and early versions of trodes?

I do remember at least three dragons having matrix conversations at one point. Presumably using old-school Turtle decks while in human form.



-k
CanRay
And there is one dragon with a Datajack.

Sorry, was one...
Halabis
No, his body still has the data jack. And his Eghost is still out there.....


Also, Possesing spritis can not realy use the matrix in any meaningfull way, although an inhabiting one can with no real problems.
CanRay
Hey, Halabis, SPOILERS!!! nyahnyah.gif
Fortinbras
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 17 2011, 02:22 PM) *
Hey, Halabis, SPOILERS!!! nyahnyah.gif

Spoilers? Cerebus/Nemesis/Eliohann was in Emergence. Which came out almost four years ago.
Am I supposed to give a warning before I tell you that Dumbledore is dead?
CanRay
...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Xahn Borealis
It never actually says that possessing spirits use the senses of their host, you know. Homunculi don't gave 'eyes', but they still see. IMO this is because a spirit possessing something is basically the same as materialising within the physical 'frame' of the vessel. Hence, the spirit uses their own senses. Runners Companion says somewhere (CBA to check) that spirits can't read electronic screens at all, which means any sort of image link, flatvid or any AR tech. It says nothing about trids, holos or electronic paper, however.
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