Hardened Armor stackable? Options

[Machiavelli]

If you Surge with the Dermal Alteration (Granite Skin) and have the drake quality, would you, if you GM allow it to stack?

[James McMurray]

If you Surge with the Dermal Alteration (Granite Skin) and have the drake quality, would you, if you GM allow it to stack?

Yes, though I'd point out them that 3 armor is probably a really bad way to spend 15 BP, especially since it doesn't stack with an armored vest. Sure, they end up with 7 hardened armor, but that's laughably easy to penetrate. Almost any kind of burst fire, anything the size of an assault rifle (or larger), or any kind of elemental effect is going to ignore it completely. Even some shmoe with a pistol and 3 successes will ignore it. And when it does get penetrated, you've got Body + 7 dice to soak with so you're screwed.

[Draco18s]

Then they become a mysitc adept and spend about half their PP on the Mystic Armor adept power, granting them more levels of normal (non-hardened) armor.

Basically, they'd still suck in comparison to spending that BP elsewhere.

Drakes are not combat monsters, even though by fluff they probably should be.

especially since it doesn't stack with an armored vest.

Drakes don't get their drake armor in metahuman form and can't wear metahuman armor in drake form. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[James McMurray]

Drakes don't get their drake armor in metahuman form and can't wear metahuman armor in drake form. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Unless I'm missing something, the 3 armor I was talking about is not specific to the drake form. When in human form you'll still have 3 hardened armor (which is a joke), but as soon as you put on a lined coat your 15 BP expenditure fades away.

[Draco18s]

Unless I'm missing something, the 3 armor I was talking about is not specific to the drake form.

You are correct, but the other 4 armor is specific to the drake form. So the 7 armor calculation is only half of the equation.

[pbangarth]

While the level of hardened armor provided by being a Drake is low, it should be noted that burst fire modifiers in particular do not count for comparing DV against hardened armor.

[James McMurray]

While the level of hardened armor provided by being a Drake is low, it should be noted that burst fire modifiers in particular do not count for comparing DV against hardened armor.

Where is this rule? I can't find it in SR4A, Arsenal, Runner's Companion, or the FAQ.

[James McMurray]

You are correct, but the other 4 armor is specific to the drake form. So the 7 armor calculation is only half of the equation.

Right, you're even worse off in metahuman form, which is probably the majority of your life unless you like to stand out like a sore thumb.

[CanRay]

Unlike the Troll that has an assault cannon strapped over his shoulder? With a Pink Mohawk and a Punk outfit?

[rumanchu]

Where is this rule? I can't find it in SR4A, Arsenal, Runner's Companion, or the FAQ.

SR4A, p.153: "Note that this DV modifier does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating."

[Draco18s]

Right, you're even worse off in metahuman form, which is probably the majority of your life unless you like to stand out like a sore thumb.

Which is why I like Slinky the Stealth Drake.
Who cares if you stick out like a sore thumb if no one can see you?

Also, it was awesome when he casually stripped naked in front of the party.

[Machiavelli]

SR4A, p.153: "Note that this DV modifier does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating."

Does that also count for auto-fire?

[Draco18s]

Does that also count for auto-fire?

The DV you compare to armor is:
Base DV of the weapon + Net hits.
That's it.
I don't even think the bonus damage for a called shot is factored in, although it may be.

[James McMurray]

SR4A, p.153: "Note that this DV modifier does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating."

Thanks! The possession mage in our group will like that, though it's usually full auto that's being used to punch through his hardening.

Does that also count for auto-fire?

Doesn't look like it. It's only under the short burst section.

[James McMurray]

The DV you compare to armor is:
Base DV of the weapon + Net hits.
That's it.

That's not what the rule rumanchu pointed to says. Is there another rule that says this?

[pbangarth]

Unfortunately, the description of Full-auto fire on page 154 does not repeat the caveat on page 153 for short bursts. The principle involved for the short bursts is that each bullet by itself is not hitting harder because more are being fired at once. If this applies for 3 bullets, it should apply for 6 bullets and 10 bullets.

But it doesn't actually say so on page 154. Every game I've played in so far applies the rule generally for all forms of burst/auto fire.

[Yerameyahu]

I wouldn't stack the armors in the first place. In this case, yes, it's not an issue because it's weak; but just as a general principle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fringe]

What about taking a Called Shot to bypass armor?

"Target an area not protected by armor. The attacking character receives a negative dice pool modifier equal to the target’s armor (better armor is more difficult to bypass). If the attack hits, the target’s armor is ignored for the damage resistance test; the target rolls only Body." (SR4A, p. 161)

I've never seen this used in-game, but it seems like it'd be a reasonable tactic against hardened targets...and something a gunslinger adept might look at doing now and then.

[Draco18s]

You can use it. And it will bypass hardened armor.

[Yerameyahu]

That makes sense: if you saw the monster (heh) had granite armor, you might aim for the eyes or something. In practice, it probably still uses their total (normal) armor, which could be a problem.

[CanRay]

That makes sense: if you saw the monster (heh) had granite armor, you might aim for the eyes or something. In practice, it probably still uses their total (normal) armor, which could be a problem.

I'd aim at getting a bigger gun.

Actually, I'd aim at getting a gun, period, instead of a firearm. Artillery, in other words. Now, where did I leave my Mortar? Oh yes, I was carrying it around the house to dust it off when I decided to have breakfast, and left it in the kitchen nook.

[pbangarth]

The critter power Hardened armor is a bit tricky. For example, where on a spirit is the magical effect of it's Materialized ItNW weaker?

[Yerameyahu]

Doesn't matter, that's just fluff. 'Called shot to Bypass Armor' works on a full body suit with helmet.

[Belvidere]

As a somewhat related question. Are there any forms of artificial hardened armor? Every example I can think of is "natural" IE, not made by people. Is there any armor, or house rules for armor to give hardened armor. Or does it come down to, "If a human can build it, a human can break it"?

[Yerameyahu]

No. They took it out in SR4, AFAIK. Vehicle armor has a similar function, of course.