New player wants to play terrible character, driver/face? Options

[Whipstitch]

Olfactory Scanners, AKA Chemical Detection Systems or Chemsniffers are the very first entry under the "Scanners" in the Technical Security rules section. They're not cyberware, they don't leverage the metahuman brain in any way and they're generally pretty dang fallible. I'm fine with a 'wared up and street savvy runner inferring by scent that the person they're dealing with likely has Tailored Pheromones-- frankly, it's a pretty safe bet when dealing with Fixer types in general-- but I have my doubts about your run-of-the-mill sensor package being able to tell the difference between someone rocking Tailored Pheromones and an ovulating 19 year old.

[Cain]

I might be remembering something from SR3 instead of SR4.5, but there is/used to be a Perception modifiers table that included Tailored Pheromones as a negative modifier when trying to hide from chemsniffers. It also included some odd things like a woman's menstrual cycle.

But that's beside the point. We here always rail on how runners are supposed to be professionals. At the level that most runners play at, they should expect everyone to be at the top of their game. Bitching and whining to their mommy that the other guy is using moderately-illegal tricks is not only unprofessional, it's stupid! Everyone is expected to have gear that pushes the boundaries, if not outright crossing them. Hell, the Johnsons are sponsored by the Big 10 Megacorps: Many of my characters simply assume that the Johnson is packing some sort of social enhancements, and plan accordingly. It's all part of doing business; you go for whatever advantage you can get.

[sabs]

I used to have a Face with an implanted air tank. When ever he met with the Johnson, he would switch to breathing from the tank.

I think whining that the Johnson is using Tailored Pheramones is silly. Of course he's using them. We're all highly trained criminals here. That's the job description, if you cant' hack it. Don't play in the big leagues.

[Whipstitch]

Plus, if you really wanted to put a Johnson over a barrel, you could just play nice and wait 20 minutes to hear what he has to say rather than try busting his balls over Tailored Pheromones. If he had wanted something legal done, after all, he would have just flipped through the yellow pages.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I couldn't find any other chemsniffers in the core book or Arsenal.

Anyway, I think that when TP lowers the threshold to smell out someone, when OB can actually smell and identify pheromones, monitor airborne chemicals for dangerous levels, identify diseases by smell and so forth, that detecting that someone's pheromones are anomalous makes good sense.

Which still does not mean that TP are the cause of the anomolous readings. You will never, beyond the shadow of a doubt, be able to tell whether they target has TP or not from using Chemsniffers/Cybersnouts. To actually identify such things, you need a Medical Profile, which takes hours to build.

[KCKitsune]

Hey quick question (that is slightly on topic) for everyone here: Can you put an Olfactory Booster in a cyberlimb, and if you are able to do so, do you still have the "Intense Odor" cutoff switch?

The reason I ask this is because my Chaos Mage has the SURGE quality of Vomeronasal Organ, and I was wanting to know if the Olfactory Booster can deal with the downside of this quality. Also does the Booster stack with the Vomeronasal Organ?

[Ascalaphus]

Hey quick question (that is slightly on topic) for everyone here: Can you put an Olfactory Booster in a cyberlimb, and if you are able to do so, do you still have the "Intense Odor" cutoff switch?

The reason I ask this is because my Chaos Mage has the SURGE quality of Vomeronasal Organ, and I was wanting to know if the Olfactory Booster can deal with the downside of this quality. Also does the Booster stack with the Vomeronasal Organ?

Well, it's technically Headware. I'm not so sure you can put that in other limbs. It also makes me think it's probably in your nose, which means you'd lose your Vomeronasal Organ altogether.

[Irion]

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein

You will never, beyond the shadow of a doubt, be able to tell whether they target has TP or not from using Chemsniffers/Cybersnouts.

I think nobody is saying so. The same is true for breath tests for alcohol from the police. They also not "beyond the shadow of a doubt".
@KCKitsune

Can you put an Olfactory Booster in a cyberlimb

Nope since it is headware. Or we would be talking about putting a nanohive in cybereys.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

@KCKitsune
Nope since it is headware. Or we would be talking about putting a nanohive in cybereys.

That would be.... Odd, to say the least... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But you can put a nanohive in a Cyber Skull if you like.

[Irion]

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein

But you can put a nanohive in a Cyber Skull if you like.

No you can't. Because nanohives have to go in Cyberhands or feet or the powergamer :cry:s. (damn no :cry: smily)

[KCKitsune]

Wait, you can put datajacks or commlinks in a cyberlimb and that's no problem. Both of those pieces of 'ware are headware. What's the difference?

[Saint Sithney]

Well, you all forget about the one and only RULE OF COOL.
Meaning the normal human driver will always get away, because he is COOLER.

I suppose it's also cooler to walk to the library to look something up in the Encyclopedia Britannica?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Driving a car with your brain is cheaper, easier, and more effective.
1BP worth of commlink and progs, 6 bp for a level of skill and a spec, and you're now throwing 12 dice at a reduced threshold.
Every character can afford this, and all of them are equally good at it.

[Makki]

I suppose it's also cooler to walk to the library to look something up in the Encyclopedia Britannica?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

how cool is that. wanna see a PC pulling that off!

[Saint Sithney]

"It's 2070, and I only jam out to cassette tapes! I have to fix and maintain them all myself because it's such a painfully outdated method of sound reproduction, but it's so retro cool!"

Personally, I don't see it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Wait, you can put datajacks or commlinks in a cyberlimb and that's no problem. Both of those pieces of 'ware are headware. What's the difference?

Agreed, I do not see a problem with it myself...

[phlapjack77]

Agreed, I do not see a problem with it myself...

I think the rule stated in the book is that if a piece of 'ware has a Capacity rating, it can be installed in a cyberlimb and won't cost Essence. I see it in the beginning of each of the Ware sections in the main book.

*edited for clarity* I'm agreeing with you and KCKitsune, just giving an actual rule for it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

*edit again* Olfactory Booster has a Capacity, so it can be put in a cyberlimb

[KCKitsune]

Agreed, I do not see a problem with it myself...

Thank you.

@phlapjack77: Thank you as well. I thought that was how the rule went.


Now Tymeaus & phlapjack77, do you think having the Olfactory Booster in a cyberlimb would give you the cutoff switch? Also I didn't see anything in either the rules for Vomeronasal Organ or the booster that says that they don't stack with other scent sensors

[Mesh]

Don't forget specializations for your Nascar driver:

Pilot Ground Vehicle (Left Turns)

LOL

[phlapjack77]

do you think having the Olfactory Booster in a cyberlimb would give you the cutoff switch? Also I didn't see anything in either the rules for Vomeronasal Organ or the booster that says that they don't stack with other scent sensors

I don't see why you wouldn't have the cutoff switch. There's no rule against it. And from a common-sense perspective, it's just "data", so you can have a switch to do anything you like to the data.

As far as the booster / V. organ...I don't see a rule either way. Part of me says they wouldn't stack, since they seem to do very similar things. Part of me says that one's a metagenetic quality, and one's cyberware, and it's not really game-breaking, so why not. The gripping hand says, ask your GM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Laodicea]

He got the kinks worked out and I give the character a B+ now. Badass, but not Amazing. Which is fine.

Unfortunately he found the whole process rather stressful. he didn't enjoy using the community DK spreadsheet to generate the charater, even though I'm certain it saved him loads of time. Oh well. Hopefully he'll enjoy his first run.

[KCKitsune]

He got the kinks worked out and I give the character a B+ now. Badass, but not Amazing. Which is fine.

Unfortunately he found the whole process rather stressful. he didn't enjoy using the community DK spreadsheet to generate the charater, even though I'm certain it saved him loads of time. Oh well. Hopefully he'll enjoy his first run.

Maybe he would enjoy Daegaan's character generator. I have found it to be the best SR4 character generator at the moment. I think that if you and he gave it a shot, you find it more useful than the DK spread sheet.

[X-Kalibur]

Maybe he would enjoy Daegaan's character generator. I have found it to be the best SR4 character generator at the moment. I think that if you and he gave it a shot, you find it more useful than the DK spread sheet.

I tend to use both to make characters. I'll use Daegann's for my basis and use it like an outline, then use the spreadsheet to get down into the nitty gritty.

For a new person to the system, however, Daegann's is by far the best option.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Thank you.

@phlapjack77: Thank you as well. I thought that was how the rule went.


Now Tymeaus & phlapjack77, do you think having the Olfactory Booster in a cyberlimb would give you the cutoff switch? Also I didn't see anything in either the rules for Vomeronasal Organ or the booster that says that they don't stack with other scent sensors

It would provide the Cutoff Switch for the Olfactory Booster in the cyberlimb, but likely not for your native sense of smell. They would also stack by default from what I understand.

[Ascalaphus]

Well, if you leave the vomeronasal organ in the nose, then the pheromones are going to affect you. An olfactory booster in your cyberleg isn't going to change that. It's just that most people put the olfactory booster in their nose, in which case it could block tailored pheromones by shutting off your sense of smell.

[KCKitsune]

It would provide the Cutoff Switch for the Olfactory Booster in the cyberlimb, but likely not for your native sense of smell. They would also stack by default from what I understand.

Damn. Vomeronasal Organ is looking more like a pain in the ass, but it is part and parcel of the template I used for the character's SURGE III metagenic qualities.

Now quick question for everyone... why is Vomeronasal Organ such a double edged sword. Yes it gives you a bonus to perception tests for smells, and +2 dice for social interactions, but if you're near a large amount of garbage, you lose 2 dice off EVERY test AND Tailored Pheromones are twice as effective against you.

This quality is 10 points. That is the same number of points needed to be a fragging Mystic Adept.

Well, if you leave the vomeronasal organ in the nose, then the pheromones are going to affect you. An olfactory booster in your cyberleg isn't going to change that. It's just that most people put the olfactory booster in their nose, in which case it could block tailored pheromones by shutting off your sense of smell.

Except, a Booster costs Essence and I was wanting to save on Essence. Also why wouldn't it override the native sense of smell? I mean it is wired into the character's CNS.

Also the Booster was not in his leg... it was in his left hand.