New player wants to play terrible character, driver/face? Options

[Irion]

@sabs
Just from the raw point value it is not that good.
Like mentioned before you have to buy off uneducated at one point.
So you are up to 50BP for +11 and -6 to the attributes. (You get some powers, but you have to get Deltaware if you want some)

As a matter of facts pixies play only well in one, very destinctive role.
And this is the one of the mage. Everyting else, they kind of suck at. (May be some special adept builds or infiltration, too)

[Makki]

As a matter of facts pixies play only well in one, very destinctive role.
And this is the one of the mage. Everyting else, they kind of suck at. (May be some special adept builds or infiltration, too)

Monofilament whip pornomancer mystic adept pixie. distinctive? maybe. inexplicably unbalanced? definitely.

[CanRay]

*Headdesk* The Unbalanced Pixie (In every form of the word!) in my group was just happy throwing dumpsters at people.

Oh, and fireballs to the crotch.

[KCKitsune]

I kind of agree with Whipstich - not every choice in the game needs to be optimal (you don't want D&D 4th Edition, where everything is the same).

I don't mind paying the cost for Vomeronasal Organ. I just am annoyed with the drawbacks to the quality. Yes you get a bonus to perception tests and social tests, but when in an area with a large amount of people (a very common occurrence) or near garbage (also a very large occurrence) you lose two dice off of EVERY test. I mean I could have understood this if it was a 5 pt merit, but it is 10 pts. I mean why get this when I could get Biocompatability for the same cost?

[redwulf25]

@sabs
Just from the raw point value it is not that good.
Like mentioned before you have to buy off uneducated at one point.
So you are up to 50BP for +11 and -6 to the attributes. (You get some powers, but you have to get Deltaware if you want some)

As a matter of facts pixies play only well in one, very destinctive role.
And this is the one of the mage. Everyting else, they kind of suck at. (May be some special adept builds or infiltration, too)

Face (Adept version).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I don't mind paying the cost for Vomeronasal Organ. I just am annoyed with the drawbacks to the quality. Yes you get a bonus to perception tests and social tests, but when in an area with a large amount of people (a very common occurrence) or near garbage (also a very large occurrence) you lose two dice off of EVERY test. I mean I could have understood this if it was a 5 pt merit, but it is 10 pts. I mean why get this when I could get Biocompatability for the same cost?

Flavour? That is why I got it.
Honestly, the penalty is enforced via GM Fiat. As are most things that adversely affect a character. So no big deal, really.

[Glyph]

I don't mind paying the cost for Vomeronasal Organ. I just am annoyed with the drawbacks to the quality. Yes you get a bonus to perception tests and social tests, but when in an area with a large amount of people (a very common occurrence) or near garbage (also a very large occurrence) you lose two dice off of EVERY test. I mean I could have understood this if it was a 5 pt merit, but it is 10 pts. I mean why get this when I could get Biocompatability for the same cost?

Or you could buy a rating: 3 enhanced pheromone receptor for 15,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (3 build points) and 0.10 Essence. But as a "natural" quality, I can see it costing 10 points - you get two significant advantages, while a cheap and relatively common piece of gear can negate the potential disadvantages.

When you get things that "fit" a character, you will sometimes get things that are less than the completely optimal choice. Even an inveterate min-maxer such as myself will sometimes do something like make a combat-oriented adept without bioware.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Or you could buy a rating: 3 enhanced pheromone receptor for 15,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (3 build points) and 0.10 Essence. But as a "natural" quality, I can see it costing 10 points - you get two significant advantages, while a cheap and relatively common piece of gear can negate the potential disadvantages.

When you get things that "fit" a character, you will sometimes get things that are less than the completely optimal choice. Even an inveterate min-maxer such as myself will sometimes do something like make a combat-oriented adept without bioware.

Heaven Forbid... You mean you actually make a character to concept on ocassion? I am sorely disappointed Glyph... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[K1ll5w1tch]

What to do? He wants to play a driver/face. Those two things have almost no synergy with each other. He's not planning to be a rigger/face, either. Just a driver. I was thinking maybe making it a technomancer rigger/face that uses sprites + drones would have at least some synergy with the high cha.

Ideas?

This is a problem because the other players will outshine him in nearly everything.

Why do you have to have synergy. I know the prevailing theory for supermegagigantor character creators is to stack every unreasonable Surge/metagenic/adept ability into them to get the absolute maximum dice pool scores imaginable, but I tend to think if your having fun then there's no such thing as a terrible character.

[Cain]

Why do you have to have synergy. I know the prevailing theory for supermegagigantor character creators is to stack every unreasonable Surge/metagenic/adept ability into them to get the absolute maximum dice pool scores imaginable, but I tend to think if your having fun then there's no such thing as a terrible character.

If you're being outshone at every turn by everyone else, you're probably not having fun.

[Whipstitch]

It's all a matter of degrees. Synergy isn't a requirement, per se, but a marked lack of it can make it hard if not impossible to create a character that can actually do what you intended it to do in play as opposed to in theory. This can be irritating even for people who really do love the ROLE part of roleplaying, since creating a PC is ideally sort of like getting to write your own part for a play. Players who write a competent veteran background and end up with a feckless bumbler in practice are often understandably disappointed with the end result.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It's all a matter of degrees. Synergy isn't a requirement, per se, but a marked lack of it can make it hard if not impossible to create a character that can actually do what you intended it to do in play as opposed to in theory. This can be irritating even for people who really do love the ROLE part of roleplaying, since creating a PC is ideally sort of like getting to write your own part for a play. Players who write a competent veteran background and end up with a feckless bumbler in practice are often understandably disappointed with the end result.

Well... 400 BP is not enough to create a Competant Veteran in many Niches. Maybe they should shoot a little lower perhaps.

[Makki]

If you're being outshone at every turn by everyone else, you're probably not having fun.

if you're specialty is a field the rest of the teams couldn't afford, because they squeezed all BP in being awesome at their field, you can't be outshone. I thought, that was the reason for being a team in the first place?

[KCKitsune]

Hey quick question for everyone here. As you know I wrote up a character with Vomeronasal Organ, and I'm having a problem with dealing with the downsides. Well, I went looking through the books to see if there was an implantable respirator, but did not find one. I did, on the other hand, find on page 341 of SR4A:

Cosmetic Modification: Outpatient treatments that take about 2 hours can be obtained to alter the user’s appearance—shape, coloration, and pigmentation of the face and body along with addition or removal of hair (fiberoptic hair with changing color patterns is still very popular). Exotic modifications like scaly skin, colorful fur, cat ears, ork tusks, or tails are more difficult to come by.

Based on the examples given, is it possible to implant nose filters? The cyberfilters would have settings to allow more unfiltered air in when the user wants it to and closes more when the stink gets too bad. The character would control it with the his PAN... or in my character's case, slave it to the Olfactory Booster.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hey quick question for everyone here. As you know I wrote up a character with Vomeronasal Organ, and I'm having a problem with dealing with the downsides. Well, I went looking through the books to see if there was an implantable respirator, but did not find one. I did, on the other hand, find on page 341 of SR4A:



Based on the examples given, is it possible to implant nose filters? The cyberfilters would have settings to allow more unfiltered air in when the user wants it to and closes more when the stink gets too bad. The character would control it with the his PAN... or in my character's case, slave it to the Olfactory Booster.

Can't remember, Is your Olfactory Booster in your Nose, or in a Cyberlimb?

I Do not know anything about implantable Nose Filters, I just use the regular ones. Stink gets too bad, just put them in. No essence cost, and fairly cheap...

[KCKitsune]

Can't remember, Is your Olfactory Booster in your Nose, or in a Cyberlimb?

I Do not know anything about implantable Nose Filters, I just use the regular ones. Stink gets too bad, just put them in. No essence cost, and fairly cheap...

The Booster is in the nose.

Also the reason for implanting the filter is for ease of use and like having cyber eyes rather than glasses is that it's always on you and can be engaged with a thought.

[Whipstitch]

if you're specialty is a field the rest of the teams couldn't afford, because they squeezed all BP in being awesome at their field, you can't be outshone. I thought, that was the reason for being a team in the first place?

Not necessarily. For one thing, some runner teams have an area of expertise they like to concentrate on, like smuggling or wetwork or whatever. I've ran games for a drone rigger, combat mage, gunslinger adept and street samurai team whose solution to most problems could often be summed up as moar dakka. For another, some teams boil down to shotgun weddings since IRL it's really just a bunch of people around a table who want to get a game rolling. Not everyone wants to sublimate their character concept for the sake of making a swiss army knife type team every time a new campaign is started up, after all-- it's the classic "I always get stuck playing the cleric hacker" problem. So there's many different factors at play when coming up with sheets that will be effective in a given table environment, and there's usually even several different ways to fix a poor fit. But with that said, sometimes the simplest solution is to have the player choose a concept that doesn't have them fighting the BP system tooth and nail from the word go just to avoid being a liability.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The Booster is in the nose.

Also the reason for implanting the filter is for ease of use and like having cyber eyes rather than glasses is that it's always on you and can be engaged with a thought.

Well, if your booster is in your nose, and your veromonasal is still working, you cut out your booster and that should block ALL sensory input from your nose (including the veromonasal)

[Ascalaphus]

A character with skills that 1) get used and 2) no-one else is comparably good at should never have to worry about not getting any spotlight. It's as simple as that: be the best in the party at something that will matter in the game.

And as for being "weak"; base skills/attributes of 4 each is supposed to be fairly good. The game system lets you turn it up to eleven though if you try, and then anyone who's just reasonably good will seem weak. It's a bit of an inflation thing; you can become spoiled and think any dicepool below 16 is a mite weak.

[Whipstitch]

Defaulting can really highlight the inflation thing as well. For example, it really doesn't take much for an elf gunslinger with Muscle Toners to pick up infiltration as a sideline.

[Ascalaphus]

That's true of course.

I did try to build an unAugmented, unAwakened, nonResonant driver/face, but it was pretty tough. It worked - kinda. Not if you want to play high-powered pro. The best to be said for it was that it'd be awesome once you gave in and put in some bioware.

[Glyph]

Base skill + Attribute of 4 is pretty good. It's about what you would see for most squad leader/veteran mooks, the kind who are a step up from a bog-standard security grunt or beat cop. Still, keep in mind that even at that level, you start running into augmentations. And tech such as smartlinks and medkits are fairly ubiquitous.

But depending on the campaign, runners often need to be a lot better than "pretty good". They need to blow "pretty good" out of the water, and go toe to toe with "really damn good". The mundane with skills and Attributes around 4 is still better than average - but he's out of his pond, and swimming with the sharks.

[Whipstitch]

Also true. 6 dice is fine for many technical skills if you work at a well-lit bench with adequate tools and are not expected to perform miracles. On a run, however, sometimes you just need to be able to crack that maglock before the hellhounds catch your scent.

[Critias]

Also true. 6 dice is fine for many technical skills if you work at a well-lit bench with adequate tools and are not expected to perform miracles. On a run, however, sometimes you just need to be able to crack that maglock before the hellhounds catch your scent.

Which is a fine way to describe, in a nutshell, the difference between a "competent" corporate drone and a "competent" Shadowrunner.

[Whipstitch]

Yeah, the fire breathing dogs aren't going to ease up just because some dude tasered you earlier. It's a tough gig.