Print is not dead!, Low tech response to the corp controls Options

[hobgoblin]

I guess the issue with SR hacking is the same as with giving gods stars in D&D. If there are numbers, someone will find a way to overcome them.

Problem is that right now RPG gamers seems separated in two amorphous categories, one that forgoes numbers more or less fully and focus everything on story (to the point that what is going on may well be collaborative/competitive/round-robin storytelling rather then a RPG session), and those that want numbers for everything as that stops the GM form "railroading" (shock, horror).

[Snow_Fox]

None of that is relevant to my statement about *clandestine* use. You keep bouncing between the security of paper, and the politics. One at a time, please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Besides, SR 2070 is a setting *ruled* by the hackers. They're so much stronger than is 'realistic', so I don't think we have to worry about Mao not being available.

Look at modern china and it's control of the internet there. Try to access information about topics the government doesn't want you to look up and ten imagine instead of a govermnet controlling as nation of 1.3 billion it's your employer upon whom you rely for you food and shelter and the well being of your family. Do you want to risk the corp hackers won't check you out? sure they are not going to check out every person BUT suppose you pissedo ff some collegue or a boss who then has a reason to want to see you to fail.

[hobgoblin]

That is one thing to keep in mind about the SR matrix. Unless your running some kind of stealth system (used to be the big defining deck aspect in previous editions, now it is "legal" to possess) all actions you do is visible to anyone else within line of sight in the metaphor of the nodes sculpting. This means that anyone else working on the same node can potentially see what your up to.

On a RL computer, keeping a similar level of overwatch would require complex monitoring software showing trees of programs and open files for every user present.

i am really surprised that black hammer, stealth, sniffer, track, spoof, exploit and decrypt are not listed as forbidden rather then restricted in SR4. The corps and governments would be able to deploy them without risk anyways, as they would be writing the laws that made such programs forbidden in the first place.

[Yerameyahu]

Snow_Fox, are we talking about SR, or reality? Are we talking about runners/spies, or repressed populations? They're each good discussions, but they're very different.

[Kyoto Kid]

I would also like to point out that there are a bunch of World of Warcraft players right now claiming table top RPGs are dead. I think we're proving them wrong.

...exactly. I buy a rule book (or more likely a PDF) and I pay once for it. To be involved in an online MMO I have to pay for a subscription as well as my ISP to play (which can be an issue if there are DL/UL limits). The other part about online games I do not like is hey are not face to face, and therefore difficult (if not impossible) to actually "play" (as an actor does) a character. I love to do dialects and accents you can't get that to come across as well typing it as you can verbally. Yeah, I've been involved in IC play on the Welcome to the Shadows forum, however, typing what "The Kid" says compared to actually falling into her role at a live session are two distinctly different things.

MMOs also tend to be pretty basic - whack the monster (or other PC) steal the treasure/items, level up, and go to the inn to recover - and thus miss a lot of the subtlety that can occur in a live RPG session. Also the setting is only one person(s)' (the MMO developer's) world view so I find it rather impersonal in that a character's actions does not have an effect on it other than how the character/critter you are fighting reacts. For example, in a recent 3rd ed campaign our team actually founded and owned the Twisted Helix club in Seattle (a couple of us underwent SURGE and had a lot of nuyen in our pockets from the last mission). MMOs are not as flexible, and cannot be due to the fact they are a basically computer programme that has to deal with a very large audience with a reasonable level of response.

Finally, if you have a slow or spotty connection (such as I do) it can make play more frustrating than fun. Imagine being in the middle of a fight and then you get hit with a network reset or timeout. While you are reloading, your character is just standing there playing "punching bag" for the bad guy as you are still effectively logged in and the world keeps moving with or without your input.

MMO's did have an effect on RPGs. Just look at what happened to "that other game" in it's current incarnation, and to a lesser degree, even here.

-----

As to the OT, I can agree with it. One of the reasons I would actually put extra points into the R/W part of at least one language my characters knew (not necessarily the "native" one either).

As to government controls of digital information, in the 2050s/60s there was the LPO's Information Directorate in the UK which pretty much controlled the C-Net (the government's databases and matrix) as well as "censoring" the UK's public matrix and media.

So I believe there is a correlation between RL and SR. Britain (before the crash at least) was a pretty much a police state under the auspices of the LPO. The familiar "bobby" was replaced by an automatic weapon carrying paramilitary specialist. When the Triple-O operatives (the LPO's secret police) showed up, people disappeared. There is the above mentioned censorship of the media as well as the Education Bureau's stranglehold on secondary and post secondary education. Effectively, the government was allowed to take whatever action deemed necessary against individuals or entities under the bumbie of "National Security".

Not very different in some ways than China today.

In my RiS campaign, Serbia was even worse, rising out of the ashes of the Euro-Muslim conflict to become a true dictatorship (with a little help) with full control of the media and National Matrix. The Beograd regime had two powerful weapons for keeping their and occupied Croatia's population under control: propaganda and fear. State Security's secret police (referred to by the Croatians as "Blacksuits" due to the clothing they wore), were like the Triple-O, people you didn't want to meet up with. Many were awakened, (usually Social Adepts but also practising mages among the higher ranks) who were well schooled in the art of psychological warfare. There were the infamous "Conversation Rooms" (interrogation chambers), and the "Re-Education" Facilities, where "conditioning" (read brainwashing) was taken to an art form. If you were deemed "unrecoverable", you'd be sent off to the "Soldier-X "programme.

In both Serbia, and particularly occupied Croatia, where any semblance of an "open" information infrastructure was pretty much non-existent, the "old school" ways were the only means Resistance groups and disaffected citizens in either nation had for passing information. It was only limited by the creativity one had. "Free" deckers (not impressed into and "properly trained" for government service) were few and had to be really really good to avoid detection (and subsequent capture since they were seen as valuable candidates for Re-Education by state), often carefully probing a local node for a day or so before actually going in.

As this was occurring in the Balkans, where instability was the norm, the rest of Europe (still recovering from the previous Euro war) pretty much avoided the situation not wanting to become involved in yet another conflict. Besides, it was the Balkans where someone else would come to power in a year or so, wouldn't they?

Of course I am not up to speed on the European scene since the Crash since I retreated back to 3rd ed after both playing and GM-ing a short campaign in 4th. Just didn't care for the change of mechanics, though I will admit from what I have read, the setting has become more dystopic (almost 1984-ish) with the "ever present" wireless matrix.

[Yerameyahu]

Maybe. At least in Seattle, it seems like you can do whatever you want, especially the hackers.

(MMOs and tabletops are distinct, so it's not revelatory that one didn't replace the other. But you do use PDFs, and chargens, and chats, and all of that. I haven't used pen and paper for PnP in years.)

[Xahn Borealis]

Yet MMOs and other video games are still seen as more socially acceptable. Everyone plays video games, but rolling dice? No way, I'm no geek. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[CanRay]

Yet MMOs and other video games are still seen as more socially acceptable. Everyone plays video games, but rolling dice? No way, I'm no geek. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Something actually told to me after I described RPGing: "That sounds pretty Anti-Social. Why don't you try communicating with people like playing World of WarCraft?"

[longbowrocks]

"That sounds pretty Anti-Social. Why don't you try communicating with people like playing World of WarCraft?"

Talking to rocks doesn't count (because ANY sentient being should be able to realize the inconsistency of that statement).
Did you explain to this rock that Table-top roleplaying most often involves being in the same physical space as the people you're playing with?

[Yerameyahu]

Focus, guys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What's that got to do with 'print is dead'?

[CanadianWolverin...]

I would like to point out that there is a printer accessory for our comms on page 328 of the SR4A.

Sure, there could be a electronic trail to that accessory if you aren't paranoid enough with your comm, but I'm just saying, there must be a reason that accessory still exists in this setting.

And I would like to hope that 3D printing would become a bit more of a possibility at a lower price point in our fantasy futuristic setting, once you take that into consideration, how crazy our your spy games going to get then? And I am sure there is some long since forgotten print encryption techniques available to stump those perusing your printed diary/journal/memos of dirty deeds done dirt cheap if you bothered to invest the archaic knowledge and language skills.

And I can't be the only one pondering the possibilities of e-paper, e-ink, holo-projectors, nanites, RFID tags, AR, and so forth when it comes to the printed word, symbols, and graphics. Surely we can get up to no good (or maybe its good in a dystopian world, freedom!) with such wonderful tools for sketching on the cave walls of the unwashed SiNless masses in the various barens.

Print isn't dead, it just became a cyber zombie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Nath]

The old line that claims "print is dead" is not entirely true, but print is definitely not in the best of health, at least not in the FDC. Most trids are equipped with printers that can crank out hardcopy at a rate of a few seconds per page. The Washington Post, DeeCee's most venerable news organization, maintains a hardcopy option on its newsnet service, one every bit as stimulating and balanced as its electronic programming. Which is to say, not at all. Print media is mostly an affectation assumed by self-proclaimed intellectuals and the odd archaist who longs loudly for the "good old days."
Of course, the policlubs, gangs, terrorists, and yes, even a few neo-anarchists, favor print media. Distribution can be decentralized and is electronically untraceable. What it is not, is effective. Handing subversive literature to the average member of the underclass is slightly less effective than just burning it. At least burning it might keep one warm. The man in the street takes one look at printed material, and if he sees no pictures, he drops it. Pictures might hold his attention until his mind rebels at absorbing printed words, and then he drops it... Pictures of naked people copulating might keep the sheets in his hands for a little longer, but the reader would tend to miss the content, focusing solely on the form.
Maybe one person in a hundred, or a thousand, actually responds to the sea of handbills, leaflets, and written diatribes floating through DeeCee. However, it is gratifying to see that our masters do know how to read. A well-timed pamphlet promising doom and destruction to the powers that be can usually be depended on to spark a frantic scurrying in the Government Zone and its many satellites. And how often can one enjoy that kind of comedy for such a reasonable price?

A bit dated maybe, since The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America was set in 2052.

[Snow_Fox]

Snow_Fox, are we talking about SR, or reality? Are we talking about runners/spies, or repressed populations? They're each good discussions, but they're very different.

Both apply but I'm thinking of the general population more than anything. Corpers living in corp facilities, lesser workers who live in their own homes but still rely on corps for work, intelligensia who object to the potential filtering of knowledge, anarchists who love something able to slip past the controls of "the man."

[Xahn Borealis]

if you aren't paranoid enough

"What do you mean, you only shot the corpse in the head ONCE?"

[CanRay]

I would like to point out that there is a printer accessory for our comms on page 328 of the SR4A.

"OK, are we all up to date?"

"No."

"Damnit, Janet! The Holo is right there! It's all laid out."

"I can't see Holos."

"Fraggin' Free Spirits, OK, break out the printer and blow the dust off of it..."

[Yerameyahu]

Indeed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hobgoblin]

I would like to point out that there is a printer accessory for our comms on page 328 of the SR4A.

I wonder if it print concealed or out in the open barcode ids for the printer and such like some printers where found to do IRL some years ago (supposedly to counter printing fake dollar bills and such, tho i am sure the Chinese government would love to be able to track down who printed some poster or flier).

[longbowrocks]

"Damnit, Janet! The Holo is right there! It's all laid out."

"I can't see Holos."

"Fraggin' Free Spirits, OK, break out the printer and blow the dust off of it..."

Why would a materialized free spirit be unable to see the contents of the physical plane (ie light -> ie holo)?

[Yerameyahu]

They just can't. Logically, they probably can't read paper either (or street signs, differentiate colors, etc.), but that's not how it works as written. No, it doesn't make sense.

You'd think they could create an e-ink solution using the astral pigments, though probably it's expensive. I'd probably also let them use more standard things if they purchased a vision power, like Low-Light (and there'd be an option for 'normal'). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Don't hijack the thread for this like I know you're about to, though. Hehe.

[CanRay]

*Slams my way into the cockpit Pre-9/11 style and jams a pistol into the pilot's ear* This this thread to Cuba!

[Xahn Borealis]

They can't read screens and holos, which is basically anything that provides AR, anything else they can see, IIRC.

[longbowrocks]

Don't hijack the thread for this like I know you're about to, though. Hehe.

You know me too well.

[CanRay]

You'd think they could create an e-ink solution using the astral pigments, though probably it's expensive.

Too small an audience.

As for Free Spirits being able to read, I think the proof is that Buttercup reads manga and Dunkie's comic book collection. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Xahn Borealis]

Unless she assenses them. "This Spiderman comic has an aura of AWESOME."

[Yerameyahu]

Only if random fluff crap is proof, CanRay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I know that the spirit rules/fluff a complete inconsistent mess, and I'm not saying what's right.