Direct Physical Spells...why bother? Options

[yesferatu]

So here's a theory...
1. NPCs usually have 1 damage track, stun is the same as physical damage.
2. Direct spells work better on living targets, indirect spells work better on non-living targets.
3. Willpower is generally capped lower than Body.
4. Direct stun spells are only resisted with willpower and ignore armor...so why ever use Shatter, PowerBall, Manaball...

Thoughts?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So here's a theory...
1. NPCs usually have 1 damage track, stun is the same as physical damage.
2. Direct spells work better on living targets, indirect spells work better on non-living targets.
3. Willpower is generally capped lower than Body.
4. Direct stun spells are only resisted with willpower and ignore armor...so why ever use Shatter, PowerBall, Manaball...

Thoughts?

Flavour? It gets really boring to have the same spell set, time after time after time...

[Fortinbras]

One of my mages makes fun of the other mage because he doesn't kill people.
Powerball because of peer pressure.

[Jhaiisiin]

I can use Shatter on doors, powerball on walkways, etc etc etc. Physical spells don't need living targets to be effective.

[Summerstorm]

Didn't we have that topic just now... like two days ago or something?

Also to 1: Does anyone ever really do that? All my NPC's have Stun/physical and overflow. Would be weird if they had not and is not a TINY bit more complex (you need a little bit more spyce on your notebook... big whoop)

Physical Spells are awesome if you want to SHOW people how you destroy their friends, good against people imune to stun damage. And shows people you don't fuck around. Also harder to heal and it is faster to kill with it. (Yeah, sometimes you just want someone GONE forever, or not) Pesky stunned foes always come back for revenge *g*.

[yesferatu]

Jhaiisiin - Wouldn't an acid stream be more effective?
Plus, there's the object resistance on direct spells.

Summerstorm- I usually use the single track when there are a number of NPCs. Naturally, if you're ignoring the singular damage track...it invalidates the theory.

I was just noticing that there are dozens of character types with Body stats in the double digits, but almost no one will ever have more than 7 Willpower.

[Yerameyahu]

Isn't stun always better, even with dual damage tracks? So it doesn't matter.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Jhaiisiin - Wouldn't an acid stream be more effective?
Plus, there's the object resistance on direct spells.

Summerstorm- I usually use the single track when there are a number of NPCs. Naturally, if you're ignoring the singular damage track...it invalidates the theory.

I was just noticing that there are dozens of character types with Body stats in the double digits, but almost no one will ever have more than 7 Willpower.

A Willpower of 3 provides double digit Stun Tracks... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Who said it doesn't, Tymeaus? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I see 'double digit Body' and '7 Willpower'.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Who said it doesn't, Tymeaus? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I see 'double digit Body' and '7 Willpower'.

Ooops... I originally read that as Physical Tracks in the Double Digits. My Bad... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Apparently we went from Damage Tracks to Raw Attributes...
Been a long day already.

[James McMurray]

Also to 1: Does anyone ever really do that? All my NPC's have Stun/physical and overflow. Would be weird if they had not and is not a TINY bit more complex (you need a little bit more spyce on your notebook... big whoop)

I've gone one step farther. All my grunts have a single 8-box health track regardless of their Body or Willpower. The only way it'll be more than 8 is if they have the quality that grants health boxes.

You're right that it's not that much more complex to have an extra row of empty squares, but having a single row saves time in the fight. I can ignore the interaction of pain tolerance and wounds in both track. I never have to care if their armor was higher or lower than the base damage. And best of all, mooks are mooks while prime foes actually feel different.

[Jhaiisiin]

Jhaiisiin - Wouldn't an acid stream be more effective?
Plus, there's the object resistance on direct spells.

OR is 2 or 3 for the items in my example, at most. Acid takes time to eat through things. Powerball destroys it *now*.

Also, as mentioned, not everyone chooses to only give a single damage track to NPCs. I know my GM tracks both separately, and they're both tabulated exactly as a PC would. Without it, I could never opt to knock an opponent out instead of killing them.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm just still curious why it matters whether it's a single or full condition track. Stun is always better, right? (Even with Trauma Dampers or Pain Editors, the drain difference and Will/Body difference make up for it, IIRC.)

[Summerstorm]

Nah. totally not.

Say your team breaks into something. Knocks out the whole security team or something and throws them into some room. NOW some mage saw you do it or missed them or something and sent out a request for help.

A response team comes in while your runners break the locks or something. Goes up to the room, uses first aid and combat drugs on the security dudes: BAM fully functional in like 5 minutes.

Also you have people "PLAYING" unconcious sometimes (you needn't waste time to go and look if he exploded into gore *G*), Or just the: Kill him now and he will never be a problem in the future. (Re-occuring enemies and such).

[James McMurray]

Stun is (almost) always better for casting spells. But its probably not just mages on the team, so if you've got a guy with APDS and another guy with Stun Bolt, there's quite a difference between having one or two condition tracks.

[yesferatu]

I guess the difference is, if you're only using one track, you'll use whichever is higher. For the purpose of the damage track, they may as well not even have a Willpower stat.
So...a cyber-monkey troll might have 20 body - and would use all 20 to resist a physical spell (and half of that plus 8 for health) - but he would still have less than 7 willpower to resist direct mana spells.

Summerstorm - What's to stop you from killing them individually at your leisure after they've all been knocked out? (Other than being a sociopath)
I'm not sure I see the difference between immolating a guard and putting them to sleep first.

[Summerstorm]

Summerstorm - What's to stop you from killing them individually at your leisure after they've all been knocked out? (Other than being a sociopath)
I'm not sure I see the difference between immolating a guard and putting them to sleep first.

Mostly Time and ressources. But depending on who, where and how other difficulties arise. (Like knocking someone out, who is standing levels above you. He goes down, but you can't see him anymore. Is he dead, wounded, just KO, hiding? You don't know. If you used physical he is at least wounded and less of a problem.)

Or just for "Revenge" reasons:
"He must have seen them, and they shot him" -"Those Bastards"
"He must have seen them, but he was killed WHILE he was KO'ed... they shot the man while already neutralized" - "OK, when we find them and i say: shoot their legs... what i really mean is: SHOOT THEM IN THEIR FACES"

[Yerameyahu]

I guess I assumed you'd be using SnS (always, always better) and you'd just kill them afterward.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I guess I assumed you'd be using SnS (always, always better) and you'd just kill them afterward.

But Why would you do that? What made you use non-lethal rounds in the first place, especially when Letha l rounds are so much less expensive? I would be willing to bet that that reason would keep you from killing them after they were incapacitated, except in rare circumstances.

[Yerameyahu]

Because they're more effective, duh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I said it right in the post: "always better". Same reason you're using stun spells.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Because they're more effective, duh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I said it right in the post: "always better". Same reason you're using stun spells.

Poor Excuse... you are using a metagame explanation for an in game effect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) And I do not use Stun Spells but rarely. My Current magician does not even HAVE any Combat Spells.

[Yerameyahu]

People in the game know that SnS is more effective. It's scientifically provable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

People in the game know that SnS is more effective. It's scientifically provable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So a -2 "shock penalty" is more effective than Dead? Interesting...
Whatever... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So why are Tazers not the only weapons used in real life? If they are so effective, why do we even still use real bullets?

[Yerameyahu]

That's moronic and you know it. A bunch of stun damage with an amazing -2 penalty *is* more effective than *wounded* (and, due to armor, less wounded). And yes, knocked out is the same as dead.

… because they don't have the range and power of SnS. Facrissake, don't be a troll, it's unlike you. Are you still sleep-deprived?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's moronic and you know it. A bunch of stun damage with an amazing -2 penalty *is* more effective than *wounded* (and, due to armor, less wounded). And yes, knocked out is the same as dead.

No it is not, and you know it. You are comparing apples to oranges. In some circumstances, it is better to use a Tazer over a real bullet. Those circumstances are few and far between. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)