Drone Question: Increasing the body of a drone?, Or: The Paraplegic Rigger and the wheelchair of doom. Options

[HeckfyEx]

It's pretty clear that Increase [Attribute] is for people, Irion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) If you need a reason not to cheat, let's say that an Object can't be a 'voluntary subject'.

CODE

Targets who are unconscious, under the effects of mind-control, or non-living are always considered voluntary.

Street Magic, p.160.

[Prime Mover]

Think it was Synner who posted some cut content from Arsenal regarding increasing Body. If I can find it I'll post link.

[Prime Mover]

Posted by Synner many moons ago while still developer.

Structural Reinforcement (All): This modification represents a series of alterations to the frame and chassis of a vehicle or drone that combine to enhance its overall structural resilience. The changes usually involve the replacement of parts with higher tensile strength materials, addition of internal supports, struts or roll bars, and other general reinforcement of the vehicles structural integrity. Such modifications normally result in a heavier if sturdier vehicle, and come at the cost of speed and maneuverability. Each time this modification is taken increase the Body of the vehicle by 1 and reduce its Speed by 10%. This modification may be applied a maximum of three times.

Modification Slots Threshold Tools Cost Availability Special Skill
Structural reinforcement (max 3) 1 10 Shop 2.500Y 6 -

[Irion]

@HeckfyEx
Thank you.

[redwulf25]

It seems you all forget the "similar models" rule from Arsenal.



So you could make a more (for example) medium drone (BOD 3) into a medium drone BOD 4. Size wouldnt change but the design could be more robust. Disadvantages could be less sensor strength or acceleration or maximum speed.

It gives players and GM's nice flexibility, not to mention rather frightening BOD 5 heavy drones.

Thanks for pointing that out. Won't help much for the Steed as it's body of 2 would only go up to 3, which is still only 4 slots for mods, but good to keep in mind for other drones.

[Yerameyahu]

HeckfyEx, you're not helping! I was trying to discourage Irion from his crazy munchkinism. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Hehehe.

I'd be extra careful of Similar Models for drones, given the very rigorous way they're grouped into Bod 1, 2, 3, or 4. (Cyborgs break the 'rule'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) Giving a Similar Model drone a +1 Body is kind of a huge difference. I'm not a fan of that rigorous 1-4 setup, personally, but there it is.

[Falconer]

Prime:

Yes, the catch is you don't get additional mod slots for doing it... it takes 1 mod slot to add 1 body... on a medium or smaller drone that doesn't help much (as slots are 4 or body whichever is greater).

The biggest reason to do that mod is on a large drone like a steel lynx... drones (which are supposed to be unmanned...) get up to 3x body in armor... so suddenly.. you can make a steel lynx bigger and heavier... and slam 20 points of armor on the sucker (body 7... 20 armor max) instead of the normal 12 max on a drone.

The only other reason I can think to do it is ramming...

For drones where you don't want to waste a mod slot to upgrade their armor, you could use it for a freebie extra 3 dice of body soak (and an extra physical box or two on the damage track). Though it's costly to try and pull that one.

I always figured drones don't have a passenger compartment so they were easier to armor (hence the body * 3, instead of the body * 2 limit passenger vehicles have). Also since they don't have to move much more than their own weight, they generally don't have a large payload capacity compared to a larger passenger/cargo vehicle.

[The Jopp]

I'd be extra careful of Similar Models for drones, given the very rigorous way they're grouped into Bod 1, 2, 3, or 4. (Cyborgs break the 'rule'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) Giving a Similar Model drone a +1 Body is kind of a huge difference. I'm not a fan of that rigorous 1-4 setup, personally, but there it is.

It could be abused but since you MUST pick a disadvantage I know the GM would exploit it sooner or later, and aside from the occassional powergamer it gives the game flavor.

One should also mention that using a "similar" model might still be something that stand out, I might choose to give it the "Distinctive Style" negative quality to represent that it is a rather unique import or model that is distinct from any other.

[Udoshi]

CODE

Targets who are unconscious, under the effects of mind-control, or non-living are always considered voluntary.

Street Magic, p.160.

Additionally,

A spell cast on a non-living, non-magic target is not resisted, as the object has no life force and thus no connection with which to oppose the casting of the spell.

Object resistance does apply, though.

[sabs]

You could easily argue that Increase Body (for a Metahuman) would not work on an Object. While the two use the term 'body' they are not strictly speaking the same stat.

Increase body is a HEALTH Spell. Machines do not have health.

[Udoshi]

bad reasoning, sabs.

the Category of the spell doesn't matter at all. Its Type(Physical or Mana does).

Unless you want to expand your arguement to Physical Spells In General Do Not Effect Machines, Because they do not have health.

There are already rules in play to account for this. As pointed out already by Hecky, objects count as voluntary targets, and increase attribute needs a voluntary target. Problem solved.

An object is, however, an object with some amount of resistance to the manipulations of magic. Rules are again provided for this, in the form of Object Resistance.

Sweet. Magi-tech here we come.

[Yerameyahu]

No, I like the Health argument. Show me a counter-example, hehe.

We know from the beginning that Increase [Attribute] is not for machines—it's a similar, but clearer, version of the 'Reinforce is only for objects' question. It's a coincidence that vehicle Body and metahuman/critter Body are the same name. We're just looking (as a fun exercise) for a rules-lawyer reason. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sabs]

Health spells can heal physical injury, cure diseases (or inflict them), detoxify poisons or drugs (or mimic their effects), as well as modify attributes. No techniques currently known to magic can erase Stun damage or cure psychological conditions.

A version of this spell exists for each Physical and Mental attribute, but not for Special attributes.


Vehicles have a number of attributes that are relevant to vehicle combat.

Vehicle Body
Vehicle Body functions much like a character’s Body, and is primarily used for damage resistance tests.

Rules Lawyer out of this one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well....

I am sure that you can boost Vehicle stats with Magic... I would require you to generate a new spell to do so however... Vehicle body Functions LIKE Metahuman Body, but not the same. Thus necessitating a new spell entirely. I would have you make it a Manipulation spell, as well...

How was that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[sabs]

Okay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I'd allow it.

it's only useful on drones, and some motorcycles anyways (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Okay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I'd allow it.

it's only useful on drones, and some motorcycles anyways (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Always works for me... Higher OR is its own punishment, though I do not see it going much higher than 6-7... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Of course, who tries to overcome OR 6-7 on a regular basis? Certainly not any of MY magically awakened characters... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sabs]

The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected

True, I was more concerned about the OR, however... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That is going to give you more of a limit than the Force the spell is cast at... If you MUST cast at Force 12 and have an OR of 6, that is crazy whacked... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

All for a potential bonus of a single point of gained attribute? No Thanks

[sabs]

The OR just means you need to cast the thing at Force 7, just to get a 1 point increase in body.
Now the spell is only F/2 -2 . So 4P DV isn't terrible to resist, but it aint pretty.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The OR just means you need to cast the thing at Force 7, just to get a 1 point increase in body.
Now the spell is only F/2 -2 . So 4P DV isn't terrible to resist, but it aint pretty.

Could be quite Brutal... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fauxknight]

Just note that you cannot have anything higher than Rating 6 at character generation. Higher armour can be added once play starts, however, of course.

Thats an incredibly vague rule that needs to be ignored for certain things. If you start counting armor as rating then a good deal of listed armor suites and vehicles would all have to be throw out for character creation. The availability cap is a much more reasonable rule.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Thats an incredibly vague rule that needs to be ignored for certain things. If you start counting armor as rating then a good deal of listed armor suites and vehicles would all have to be throw out for character creation. The availability cap is a much more reasonable rule.

Cannot be quoted enough... Armor does not Come in RATINGS...

Programs have Ratings (Stealth 1-6)
Armor does not have Ratings... An Armored Jacket is an Armored Jacket... You cannot buy an Armored Jacket Rating 2...

Should be simple enough...

[Bodak]

However, you can give a vehicle an armour upgrade; this armour upgrade has a rating.

Mea culpa regarding the inherent armour value of pre-existing stock items such as the cocoon itself or an armoured jacket. Of course, these come off the shelf with their respective armour values. I had mistakenly thought the post was referring to modifying a drone with a rating 20 armour upgrade.

[sabs]

It's a way to get a 1 person vehicle with 23 points of armor protecting the user (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bodak]

Cannot be quoted enough... Armor does not Come in RATINGS...
<snip>
Armor does not have Ratings...

"The rigger cocoon has an Armor rating of 20 and a Structure rating of 10" (AR142). Armour (AR132) "What helps them to survive this is good old-fashioned armor, rated from 1 to 20." Also "Personal armor has a rating of 1 to 10, which is added as a dice pool bonus to any test to avoid damage inflicted by outside sources onto passengers." (AR141) In all these cases, armour is described as having a rating. The ratings of the Armour and the Personal Armour upgrades are limited to 6 at character generation.

standard cocoon is 1 mod slot, enhanced is 2
I always get the enhanced version. Combine it with an agent and medical autosoft.. it is the awesome

It has never made sense to me that the enhanced version's Availability is so much harder than the Valkyrie module on its own or the standard cocoon on its own.

The availability on that cocoon is very low.

I don't really follow your reasoning for calling it "very low". You cannot get the enhanced cocoon (which we're both talking about) at character generation without the Restricted Gear quality. To my way of thinking, that immediately disqualifies it from having a "very low" availability.

You see both of the Rigger Cocoons listed in a table on AR141. "The enhanced version of the cocoon includes the capabilities of a valkyrie module (p. 146)," (AR142). The Valkyrie Module is listed in a table on AR143.

Basic Cocoon is 1500Y, availability 8.
Valkyrie Module is 2000Y, availability 10.
Enhanced Cocoon is 4000Y, availability 14R.

I could understand if someone installed an availability 10 item inside an availability 8 item and called it availability 10. The installation took a bit of (automated) labour so maybe availability 11 or if you're hours from a mechanic, 12. But 14R? If you put a valkyrie module in your basic cocoon you don't suddenly have to get a licence for the combo. Like I said, it has never made sense to me.